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Re: AVERAGE Power/Phase angle confusion



Original poster: "harvey norris by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com>


I am picking this thread apart only one or two piece
by refutation: necessary for this group to resemble a
resemblance of electrical knowledge!
--- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> Original poster: "by way of Terry Fritz
> <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>" <free0076-at-flinders.edu.au>
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Tesla list wrote:
> 
> > Original poster: "harvey norris by way of Terry
> Fritz
> <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com>
> > 
> > 
> > --- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> > > Original poster: "Gary Johnson by way of Terry
> Fritz
> > > <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>" <gjohnson-at-ksu.edu>
> > > 
> > > Sorry to pick nits, but a recent reference to
> RMS
> > > power set me off, rather
> > > like fingernails on a slate blackboard.  Our
> meters
> > > measure measure average
> > > voltage and current on the dc ranges, rms
> voltage
> > > and current on the ac
> > > ranges, but only AVERAGE power (never RMS
> power).
> > Are not these the same thing? If we integrate the
> > Power equation curve for a half cycle is not the
> area
> > under this curve the sime area as if the rms
> voltage
> > and rms amperages were multiplied?
> 
> Not if they are out of phase.
BS or horse manure,or textbook misinterpretation
whichever variety you prefer. Let me ask the ENTIRE
TESLA LIST a simple question. I have a .45 Henry Coil
system of 38 ohms, and a 56 Henry coil of 1000 ohms.
Which system is more reactive than the other,or which
is more "out of phase"  by the cherished mathematical
standards whereby the myth of differing phase angles
is established? The experts know the answer to this
simple question in which the answer is so obvious it
deserves no mention! The 1000 ohms I measure from a 56
Henry coil at wall voltage AC consumes 5 ma from the
wall AC 120 volt input, that is the recorded amperage
by the meter, rms reading or what/not in the reactive 
amperage reading state. In its condition of drawing a
reactive current 90 degrees out of phase with the 120
volts input across that 1000 ohms, only a possible 120
ma would occur if the coil was in perfect resonance,
but in this reactive current measurement instance the
5 ma is shown by the meter as the resultant amperage
experienced by the meter showing the amount of current
present in that impedance; once again THAT is  the
amount of current conduction ALREADY predicted by what
the mathematical phase angle trigonometric
calculations will deliver and the meter is only
verifying that result and not lying to you!!!!  
That is what is ALREADY predicted to be the
amperage consumption which is exactly what the meter
reads by the appropriate phase angle considerations. I
assumed that was enough to end the thread, but maybe
not...


 And the area needs to
> be taken over a full
> period and divided by the period to take into
> account harmonic distortion 
> and find the average. The average power is called,
> funnily enough, average
> power. Definitely NOT RMS power, that would be
> something entirely
> different.
I give up? 
> > > Average power is the
> > > product of rms voltage, rms current, and power
> > > factor. 
> 
> > I definitely disagree here. If you are making AC
> > MEASUREMENTS on any circuit, those measurements
> > themselves are already the result of the phase
> angle
> > conditions. If I am measuring a fairly resonant
> 
> Definitely not, two-wire devices like multimeters
> can't measure the phase
> difference between two signals now can they?
Yes they can without falling into the trap of this
argument..., there was never two signals to begin
with, only the figment of mathematical imagination
that calls the OHMS laws conduction value the "in
phase" signal. This non argument is based on
inadequate mathematical knowledge.  
The amount of amperage consumed by the
meter itself does not give a linear indication of the
predicted phase angle but that again is the job of
trigonometry to ascertain the phase angle. The PHASE
ANGLE is the deduction MADE AFTER THE METER READING,
NOT BEFORE! The inverse interpretation that many hold
in common is wrong. Sorry for the cherished beleifs
held in your knowledge box, but you should have never
read something into the mathematics that was never
there in the first place. No need for further comment
on this thread.... 
Sincere in common Sense  HDN

=====
Binary Resonant System  http://members3.boardhost-dot-com/teslafy/

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