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Re: 3D version of ETesla



Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Mark,

At 04:15 PM 7/7/2005, you wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:38:34 -0500, Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

I'd love to be able to test this in Etesla, just for grins, but it uses
cylindrical symmetry and cannot simulate a conductive rod next to the coil
as in these experiments.  A 3D version of ETesla was on my TODO list about
4 years ago, but it quickly fell off the list because it required too much
effort and computer horsepower for too little gain.

I can run a 500 x 500 grid in about 45 minutes on a 3 GHz machine. It is hyperthreading so it still has about twice that available if it could be done in two threads... I was at the robot meeting tonight and they said just to run two things after Main().... I did not get it 0:-|... But "real" programmers would... So that would be 45 minutes times say 250 = 8 days for 500 x 500 x 500 cube... That is a "very" detailed array in a realistic amount of time... So maybe we have to start thinking about a true "3D" version of E-Tesla... But on the other hand... Almost all coils are served by the present version...... But a streamer off the toroid would need 3-D....... Would have to redo all the physical object constraints to 3-D...


The constraints are trivial.

I took "me" weeks to get it right 0:o)

Iterating through the grid will take "a while...." Fortunately there are some pretty easy things to do to speed up the math. For starters, dynamically-allocated arrays like ETesla uses can be "exploded" to run a lot faster. I believe Sue or some other female coiler had experimented with that when ET was converted to C, and the improvement was drastic.

I am not sure who Sara was/is... She changed my BASIC code to C in a nice way even "I" could understand ;-)) She knew C, and she knew "I" would have to understand it too ;-))) I copy and paste her code a lot ;-)))


(IIR, it made the code harder to read, so speed was sacrificed in the name of readability.) It's also possible to use fixed point math using integers, which "may" crunch faster than floating point numbers.

In this case, the "idea" of the program is now fairly well understood and known. Now, we need speed!!! I used to set the alarm to wake me up at 3:30am so I could load the next test E-Tesla BASIC model on the laptop... Now the computer can do that model in 15 seconds!!! I now run 500 x 500 arrays like it is no big deal!!!



Jim (?) mentioned a couple weeks ago that there are highly-optimized array-handling codes available, though I don't know if they are free.....

We certainly want to keep things open sourced and all that!!!!


In my opinion, though, the most difficult aspect is displaying the results - "slices" would have to be created to create the nice 2D surface plots we're used to. It would almost certainly be better to have the application generate the plots than to load them into mathcad (Excel can't handle more than 255 columns). I was working on that particular issue a number of years ago, but "ran into trouble" and gave up. :o

The "display" is the hardest part for sure!!! No "free" program I know of can do it well, if at all... Slices are fairly easy if you like math.... The different OS GUIs get messy now too... StarOffice, Excel, MathCad... are pretty easy to use and can be "found" by many... I note that the fancy video card in my computer with it's eight processors and massive fan and power needs can run video games fine even with two models running and using 100% of the hyperthreading CPU... Not sure if the "video card" could just "do it".... That takes more computer knowledge than I will ever dream of having... I think the video cards are OS/CPU platform independent at least...



To date I can only recall three instances where I could have used a 3D version of ETesla - I was wondering how the proximity of a grounded rod would affect things, I was wondering how a radial streamer/spark affected the tuning, and yesterday when I was wondering what the potential of a "floating" object would be.

That "floating" potential things is messy for sure!!! I have no idea how that would be handled.... Maybe iterate the 500 x 500 x 500 array 250000 times :o))) Next is to make the program handle "dynamic" cases.... That will easily blow today's computers clean out of the water... Have to hook up a massive parallel array of old GameBoys or something...


Some of the "stuff" will be pretty easy, even to a fairly naive coder (me!), but there is some that would be pretty challenging. I guess I'm not sure if the result is worth the effort, but I could be talked into working on it. o:)

"I" don't think it is worth it... I just don't see the great need and I can't imagine the end resulting program that we could use... A direct test or experiment could provide the answer in the rare cases far faster... It would "be cool to have", but I just can't see the great need...



As an afterthought I had just as I was about to click the send button, this really is just a standard FEA problem. Although I don't know of any free FEA applications out there, there are discounted student copies (and illegal copies) of many of the commercial ones. Has anyone thought of and/or looked into this?

It has been about 9 years now since I played with any and they "might" have made them better since :o))) I played with Algor back then... But it was all thermal and mechanical stuff... If there is a good commercial package that would do the trick, there might be someone out there that could run the "one problem" a year through it for us... This recent problem of Dave's is pretty cool!! The advantage of having our own code is that we can modify it just the way we want like ScanTesla...


Bela is pretty good too!! I have not played with it as much as I should!!! But I think it is all 2-D. Now with these super computers on a desk, the freebee 3-D stuff might be coming soon!!! We might have to wait until some fields FEA programer guru is board one night waiting for his experiment to warm up to just "whip it out" for us...

Cheers,

        Terry



Cheers!

Mark Broker
The Geek Group