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Re: Help with analyzation theory



Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Adam,

I had to guess at a few things, but MandK gives:

--------------
 Mutual Inductance Program V3.1
 Copyright (c) 1998, 1999, 2000 by Mark S. Rzeszotarski, Ph.D.

 Flat Spiral Primary Coil Geometry
 Primary coil inside diameter (inches)=     13.750
 Primary coil outside diameter (inches)=     27.250
 Number of primary coil turns =     10.000
 Wire diameter (inches)=      .3750

 Solenoidal Secondary Coil Geometry
 Secondary coil diameter (inches)=    10.750
 Secondary coil height (inches)=     54.500
 Number of secondary coil turns =  1253.000
 Secondary coil wire diameter (inches)=      .0403

 Calculational Results
 Primary coil inductance in microhenries:  Lp =           66.80
 Secondary coil inductance in microhenries:  Ls =        76873.06
 Figure of Merit (square root of Ls/Lp) =     33.92
 Primary coil wire length in feet =      53.60
 Secondary coil wire length in feet =    3526.38
 DC secondary resistance in ohms:     22.93
 Secondary coil distributed capacitance in picofarads:     22.33
 (Medhurst formula, assumes one end of secondary is grounded)

 Mutual Inductance Results
 Position is the secondary coil bottom wire position in inches
 above the bottom wire of the primary coil.
 A negative value means the bottom wire of the
 secondary is below the bottom wire of the primary.
 A positive value means that the bottom wire of the
 secondary is above the bottom wire of the primary coil.
 M = Mutual Inductance in microhenries
 K = Coefficient of Coupling: K =  M / square root ( Lp x Ls )

           Position           M                K
             .000         326.504           .1441
             .500         306.910           .1354
            1.000         287.706           .1270
            1.500         269.201           .1188
            2.000         251.588           .1110
            2.500         234.969           .1037
            3.000         219.383           .0968
            3.500         204.829           .0904
            4.000         191.280           .0844
            4.500         178.695           .0789
            5.000         167.023           .0737
            5.500         156.209           .0689
            6.000         146.197           .0645
            6.500         136.931           .0604
            7.000         128.357           .0566
            7.500         120.422           .0531
            8.000         113.077           .0499
            8.500         106.275           .0469
            9.000          99.974           .0441
            9.500          94.134           .0415
           10.000          88.716           .0391
           10.500          83.688           .0369
           11.000          79.018           .0349
           11.500          74.676           .0330
           12.000          70.637           .0312


Operating Characteristics Ctoroid is the added capacitance of the top terminal. Fres is the resonant operating frequency in kilohertz. Cpri is the required primary capacitance in nanofarads. Zpri is the primary surge impedance in ohms. Zsec is the secondary surge impedance in ohms. Qsec is the secondary coil quality factor Q. Rac is the secondary coil RF resistance in ohms.

 Ctoroid(pF)    .0     5.0    10.0    15.0    20.0    25.0    30.0    35.0
 Fres(kHz)   121.5   109.8   101.0    94.0    88.2    83.4    79.4    75.8
 Cpri (nF)   25.69   31.45   37.20   42.95   48.71   54.46   60.21   65.97
 Zpri(ohms)   51.0    46.1    42.4    39.4    37.0    35.0    33.3    31.8
 Zsec(ohms)  58678.  53039.  48765.  45381.  42617.  40303.  38329.  36619.
 Qsec        513.3   485.0   462.3   443.5   427.4   413.4   400.8   389.7
 Rac (ohms)  114.3   109.4   105.5   102.3    99.7    97.5    95.6    94.0
-----------------

The maximum K is 0.14 but the varies with exactly where you tap the primary.

E-Tesla6 gives:

http://hot-streamer.com/temp/Adam-001.gif

Fo = 76.7 kHz but I assumed the top terminal center would be 12 inches above the secondary and the primary and coil base were 12 inches off the ground.
------------------
E-TESLA V6.13C July 26, 2003


 Grid Size = 500.000000
 Scale Multiplier = 1.000000
 Terminated Coil
 Ceiling Distance = 260.000000
 Wall Distance = 130.000000
 Primary Height (Inner Turn) = 12.000000
 Primary Inner Diameter = 13.750000
 Primary Outer Diameter = 27.250000
 Primary Height (Outer Turn) = 12.000000
 Strike Rail Height = 0.000000
 Strike Rail Diameter = 0.000000
 Secondary Base Height = 12.000000
 Secondary Diameter = 10.750000
 Secondary Length = 54.500000
 Secondary Turns = 1253.000000
 Secondary Wire AWG Size = 18.000000
 Secondary Inductance (mH) = 77.089995
 Terminal-1 Height (center) = 88.500000
 Terminal-1 Cord Diameter = 8.000000
 Terminal-1 C-C Diameter (toroid only)= 34.000000
 Terminal-2 Height (center) = 88.500000
 Terminal-2 Cord Diameter = 0.000000
 Terminal-2 C-C Diameter (toroid only)= 0.000000
 Top Voltage = 1.000000
 Pass     Ccalc (pF)          Change            Fcalc (Hz)
  .........
178000   C=55.82611       Err%=0.000081       F=76718.91

------------------

ScanTesla gives:

------------------
ScanTesla  V-7.40  July 1, 2005  Terry Fritz
C1 7.500000e-008 7.508000e-008 1.000000e-009
R1 2.000000e+000 2.000000e+000 5.000000e-004
L1 4.000000e-005 1.000010e-004 -1.000000e+000
L2 7.709000e-002 7.709000e-002 1.000000e-003
K12 1.000000e-001 1.500000e-001 5.000000e-003
R2 3.910000e+002 3.910000e+002 1.000000e+000
C2 5.500000e-011 5.500000e-011 1.000000e-013
C3 1.200000e-011 1.200000e-011 1.000000e-013
R3 2.200000e+005 2.200000e+005 1.000000e+003
T1 0.000000e+000 1.000000e-003 -1.000000e-006
Vrail 0.000000e+000
VCpri_init 2.376000e+004
BPS 1.200000e+002
DwellTime 0.300000e-003 0.300000e-003 1.000000e-005
Current_Limit 4.500000e+004
CoilPower_Limit 1.500000e+006
Goal Type 1

ScanTesla  V-7.40  July 1, 2005  Terry Fritz
Goal = 8.706697e+000  Maxium Load Energy
Model Number = 963
Goal Number = 214
Cprimary = 7.500000e-008
Lprimary = 6.314699e-005
Rprimary = 2.000000e+000
Coupling = 0.145000
Csecondary = 5.500000e-011
Lsecondary = 7.709000e-002
Rsecondary = 3.910000e+002
Cload = 1.200000e-011
Rload = 2.200000e+005
BPS = 120.000000
Dwell (T1) Time = 0.300000e-003
Ilprimay Maximum = -777.390648
ICprimary RMS = 26.279855
VCprimary Maximum = 23712.247625
VCsecondary Maximum = -392775.129002
Coil Power = 2540.419200   Primary Bang Energy = 21.170160
Load Power = 1044.803622   Load Bang Energy = 8.706697
Leader Length (in) =   77.6
Primary F0 = 73132.964376   Secondary F0 = 77292.928813
Load Energy Rise Time (uSec) =   44.8

------------------
It comes out with a very low coil power of only 2500 watts. Either I typed a number in wrong, the program calculated something wrong, your BPS needs to be much higher, your cap needs to be much higher....


Maybe all this will help ;-) Beware I may have given the programs the wrong data....

Cheers,

        Terry



At 02:28 PM 7/20/2005, you wrote:
I go through the number crunching on my:

http://www.hot-streamer.com/adam/bigass_coil/design.pdf

page. Not much in the way of explanation, but you can
probably follow if you have a basic understanding.

Adam

--- Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Original poster: "Adam R." <arabraxas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> I've been working with coils for awhile now, but am
> still just a
> beginner's student in EE and am working to
> understand the circuit of
> the coil, but am running into some bumps in the road
> so I am
> wondering if someone can point me in the right
> direction. For
> brevity's sake, I won't rattle off too much off what
> I'm stuck on.
> I'm just asking the "whys?" of what is going on.
>
> First, I don't quite understand how the
> i(t)=C(dv/dt) can get so high
> (ie hundreds of amps). I also don't fully understand
> the nature of
> the 60hz to high frequency tank circuit.
>
> What's throwing me off is how I'm looking at the
> circuit in the
> manner of an LC, the cap/indu reactance, and etc.,
> I'm trying to
> piece things together, but they don't seem to fit,
> especially when I
> add the spark gap. The math equations keep forming
> odd numbers, such
> as 13269 amps! I'm not trying derive everything, but
> just again, see
> how things (mathematically) fit together.
>
> I don't want the theory "spoon fed" to me, just if
> someone could
> start pointing me in the right direction as to what
> I should
> research. Thanks in advance!
>
>
>