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Re: [TCML] Plastic dielectric data



Gary,

Thanks for that info on plastics. I suppose one would
need to be a full-fledged chemist to fully comprehend
all of the different types of available plastics. Very in-
teresting ;^)

David


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lau, Gary" <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx>
To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: [TCML] Plastic dielectric data


First, allow me to change the Subj: line to something useful.

Plastic soda bottles appear to be made of polyethylene-terephthalate, abbreviated PET. Somehow an extra "A" slipped into the discussion.

Attached is a copy of a very old TCMP post, a compilation of electrical properties of plastic materials, including PET. Enjoy!

Regards, Gary Lau
MA, USA

-----Original Message-----
From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of David Rieben
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:41 AM
To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TCML] TC Newbie

Hi Gary, all,

I'm afraid that I don't recognize the acronym "PETA"
in reference to plactic. The only thing that I can think
of for this one is "(p)eople for the (e)thical (t)reatment
of (a)nimals" ;^) I know "PE" is polyethylene and HDPE
is high density polyethylene but I just can't figure out
what the "TA" means. Someone please enlighten me :^?

David

From: EDHARRIS@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: richard.quick@xxxxxxxx
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 12:45:45 -0600
Subject: Magnet Wire and Polymer Data

update 8/1/1995
Compiled by Ed Harris
174 W 18th Ave
Columbus, OH 43210
New inclusions to the old stuff:
Info on magnet wire coatings!


From all the discussion on this group about building ones own capacitors
and what types of materials make good coil forms, I became interested in
obtaining some hard (or semi-hard) data on different types of polymers. I
was also interested when someone (?) asked whether ABS was a good material
for coil forms - I had no idea. It seems that it is much preferable to PVC.

I thought I'd share the results of my library searches:

First, I'd like to list some of the plastics with their chemical name and
their abreviations. Trade names are listed if they are well known.

chemical name                   abreviation     aka             notes
-------------                   -----------     ---             ------
polyethylene                    PE              polythene-British!

                                                       CH2-CH2 monomer

                               HDPE                    High density PE
                               LDPE                    Low density PE

polypropylene                   PP                      replace one H in PE
                                                       by CH3

polyvinyl chloride              PVC                     replace one H in PE
                                                       by one Cl atom

polyvinylidene chloride         CPVC PVDC               replace two H in PE
                                                       by two Cl

polystyrene                     PS                      replace H in PE by
                                                       a benzene ring

polyvinyl flouride              PVF                     replace H in PE by
                                                       F atom

polyvinylidene flouride         PVDF            Kynar   repace two H in PE
                                                       by two F atoms
                                                       *wire wrap insul.

polymethyl methacrylate         PMMA            Plexiglas
                                               Lucite
                                               Perspex (British)

polytetraflouroethylene         PTFE            Teflon  replace all H in PE
                                                       by F atoms

polychlorotrifloroethylene      PCTFE           Kel-F   replace 3 H in PE
                                                       with F one with Cl

polyamide 6                     PA 6            Nylon 6

polyamide 66                    PA 66           Nylon 66

polyamide-imide                 PAI             Torlon

polyurethane                    PUR

polycarbonate                   PC              Lexan

Polyacetal                      POM             Delrin

polyethlene terephthalate       PET             Mylar   co-polymer of PE

cellulose actetate butyrate     CAB             Butyrate

cellulose nitrate CN "Laquer" *typical constituent
                                                       laquers

acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene ABS             Cycopac ter-polymer of
                                                       polystyrene
                                               * warning Jim Oliver says
                                               this name may apply to
                                               may many diff materials

polyimide                       PI              Kapton

polyvinyl formal                ?               Formvar wire coating

OK, there are zillions of others, but these are the ones I picked because I
heard of them before...
A couple of comments: Notice that there are many polymers which share a
common structure with polyethylene, all that changes is replacing one or
more of the H atoms in (PE) with some other atom or group of atoms. Then
there are plastics which are called co-polymers or ter-polymers. A co-
polymer is just taking two different monomers and sticking them together in
a unit cell before polymerizing. Example: PET. Likewsie, a ter-polymer is
just sticking three monomers into a unit cell and then polymerizing. A very
common example is ABS which is used as sewar and drainage pipe.


Now for the useful stuff. What are the electrical properties of some of
these polymers? The most useful properties in my mind are the dielectric
constant (or permittivity), the dielectric strenght, and the dissipation
factor. All of these properties are dependent on temperature and frequency,
but amazingly they also depend somewhat on the actual thickness of the
material (as in thin films).

----A couple of notes:
All three properties mentioned above depend on frequency, but it turns out
that for many non-polar polymers (ie PE) that the dielectric constant and
dissipation factor do not depend much on frequency. I'll show some data for
some of the plastics I could find. However, nobody seems to have data on
the frequency dependence of the dielectric strength. It is best just to
assume that this was done at DC.

One property which is not well known for polymers is that the breakdown
electric field or dielectric strength (VOLTS/INCH etc...) depends on the
actual thickness of the film. Typically, as the film gets thinner, the
dielectric strength goes up!!! For example, LDPE has a strength of 800volts
per mil at 80 mils, but this goes up to 1400volts/mil at 20mils!!
Polystyrene exceeds even this! I have personally done measurements on LDPE
which show DC breakdowns of 3000Volts/mil at 2mils...

Finally what is dissipation factor? It is a measure of how lossy the
material is to alternating electric fields (as in Tesla coils and tank
capacitors). It is defined by

       Ir
       --- = tangent (delta)   = DF
       Ic

where Ir is the resistive or dissipative current and Ic is the capacitive
or displacement or reactive current. Delta is the phase angle between
these currents  (in the complex plane). Another expression which contains
the same information is the Power Factor. For those familiar with this term
they are related by:

       PF=DF/SQRT(1+DF^2)

For small DF, then PF is approximately equal to DF. Obvisously, one would
like to have DF as small as possible for low loss, high Q systems. In fact,
for the purposes of approximation, the Q of a capacitor with low DF or PF
is simply Q=1/DF=1/PF

Absolute power lost in the system is:
1. goes up with the square of the voltage gradient (electric field)
2. goes up linearly with the volume of the dielectric in the field
  ( make your coil forms thin)
3. goes up linearly with increasing dielectric constant
  ( don't use barium titanate primary caps!)
4. generally increases with frequency


polymer         dielectric      dielectric      dissipation
               constant        strength        factor
               50Hz / 1Mhz     (Kv/cm)         50Hz / 1Mhz (x10^-3)
--------        -----------     -----------     -----------
LDPE            2.29 / 2.28     370             .15 / .08
HDPE            2.35 / 2.34     --              .24 / .20
PP              2.27 / 2.25     240             .40 / .50
PVC-plasticized 4-8  / 4-5      270             80  / 120
PS              2.5  / 2.5      200-300         .1-.4/.05-.4
ABS             2.4-5/2.4-3.8   ~400            3-8 / 2-15
PMMA            3.3-3.9/2.2-3.2 140             40-60/4-40
POM             3.7 / 3.7       400             5 / 5
PTFE            2.1  / 2.1      480             .2 / .2
PCTFE           2.3-2.8/2.3-2.5 550             1 / 20
PA-6            3.8 / 3.4       400             10 / 30
PA-66           8 / 4           600             140 / 80
PC              3.0 / 2.9       380             .7 / 10
PET             4.0 / 4.0       420             2 / 20
PI              3.5 / 3.4       560             2 / 5
PUR-linear      5.8 / 4.0       >300            120 / 70
PUR-thermoset   3.6 / 3.4       240             50 / 50
PUR-thermoplas  6.6 / 5.6       300             30 / 60
CAB             3.7 / 3.5       400             6 / 21
Silicone        3.6             200             5-13 / 7


Another comparison:

polymer         Dielectric constant / Dissipation Factor (x10^-3)

               100 Hz          1000 Hz         1 Mhz           10 Mhz

ABS             2.8/5           2.8/6           2.8/8           2.8/7
PMMA            3.6/62          3.2/58          3.1/40          2.9/33
PC              3.1/1           3.1/1.3         3.1/7           3.1/11
PE              2.3/.1          2.3/.1          2.3/.1          2.3/.1
PA-6            4.2/31          3.8/24          3.8/31          4.0/20

**************************************************************************
Magnet wire coatings from Phelps-Dodge:
All data pertain to 18 gauge magnet wires
Build= thickness of coating

Coating                 What's it made of       Build           DC
----------              -----------------       -----           breakdown

Thermaleze-T (TZT)      polyester-imide         2.8mils         11kV

Armored Polythemaleze                           3.05mils        11kV
(APTZ)                  modified polyester&
                       modified polyamide-imide

Imideze (ML)            Aromatic polyimide      2.9mils         12kV

Formvar                 modified polyviynyl     3.0mils         10kV
                       formal

Sodereze                modified polyurethane   2.9mils         8.5kV

Nyleze                  Polyurethane            2.9mils         8.5kV
                       & polyamide

* Note: for the dielectric breakdown - These numbers are much bigger than
for bulk materials because they are very thin coatings. As mentioned
previously, the breakdown field increases as the thickness goes down.
{a similar effect happens in gases and liquids and was studied by Paschen}

Anyway, here's the dielectric constant/DF numbers for these matearials:

Material                Dielectric Const. / DF x 10^-3

               1kHz            100kHz          1Mhz            rating
TZT             3.7/5.6         3.56/16.4       3.58/21.5       3rd

APTZ            3.86/6.9        3.69/22.1       3.67/26.6       5th

ML              3.34/0.9        3.3/5.7         3.36/9.8        2nd to
                                                               teflon

Formvar*        3.6/11.2        3.41/25.2       3.37/28.4       5th

Soldereze       3.85/11.3       3.66/20.7       3.66/23.1       4th

Nyleze          4.07/19.7       3.78/27.1       3.75/27.2       6th

* This shows that Formvar is far from an ideal coating for magnet wire
used in Tesla Coils when compared to something like Polyimide coatings


References:
1. Polymer Engineering Principles, Richard C. Progelhof and James Throne
2. Plastics for Electronics, Martin T. Goosey
3. Handbook of Plastics in Electronics, Dan Grzegorczyk and George Feineman
4. SPI Plastics Engineering Handbook, Society of the Plasitics Industry
5. Electrical Engineer's Handbook, Pender - 4th Edition
6. Phelps-Dodge magnet wire product data

Plastics sources: probably best to check your local distributors, but there
is a mail order company called US Plastic Corp @800-537-9724 (catalog).
They have rod/sheet/tubing of PVC, PMMA, CAB, POM, PE, PS. Of particlular
note:
       Butyrate tubing up to 6 " diameter * lower loss coil forms
       Polystyrene tubing to 4 " dia * very low loss coil form
       4x8ft LDPE sheet 60mil or other * Capacitors
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