[TCML] Stacking vs Large Diameter

Tue Jul 15 18:41:51 MDT 2008

Hi Phillip,

(Wow, someone who knows first hand the woe's of JavaScript coding! Cool!).

The extra toroid (2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. top load object) does take more 
time to run, but for me only a little. Not only does your PC speed 
effect the time of a run, but also the browser used. I run the default 
coil in 12.9 seconds. If I install a second toroid of the same size 14 
inches above the 1st, then 16.6 seconds. Your 300 seconds is really 
strange! My browser is Firefox. It's actually a little faster than IE. 
The newer IE7 (1 toroid ran in 14 seconds, 2 toroids ran in 20.4 
seconds). The older browser IE6 is about the same. However, some 
browsers like Netscape 6 and 7 are almost twice as slow. The only 
difference is the browser [how objects are passed to and fro].

Take care,
Bart

Phillip Slawinski wrote:
> Bart,
>
> Thanks for that.  I had been playing around in JavaTC as well.  It did cross
> my mind to compare stacking the toroids one on top of the other, and then
> with some separation, but I never got around to it.  The laptop I run it on
> is a piece of garbage.
>
> One thing I should note is that when I was running calculations when I had
> my 23x7 and 21x6 stacked on top of each other the calculations took an
> excruciatingly long time.  Granted, my laptop is a piece of garbage, but
> we're talking about 20 times as long as opposed to a single toroid.  [300sec
> vs 18]
>
> By the way, thanks for writing this tool.  I too code in JavaScript and I
> know what a humongous pain it is to get it to work correctly in several
> browsers.  What you've done with JavaTC is no small feat.
>
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:54 PM, bartb <bartb at classictesla.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> I believe Ed Sonderman put the cylinder between the toroids to add a little
>> contribution to capacitance. However, I've never looked at that aspect since
>> Javatc had the capability to decipher it. Ok, well, I took a whole 30
>> seconds of my life and looked at it.
>>
>> I used the default coil in Javatc (default toroid dimensions are 6.25" x
>> 21").
>> Ctoroid = 23.286pF
>>
>> I then inserted a second toroid 14 inches above the original (same toroid
>> geometry): A dual stack with 14" separation center to center.
>> Ctoroid = 34.397 pF
>>
>> I then inserted a cylinder with a diameter equal to the outer radius of the
>> toroids with top and bottom cylinder ends at each toroids center line.
>> Ctoroid = 36.072 pF ( Yipes! Not a big change, is it?).
>>
>> Well, capacitive contribution of the cylinder is minimal. I doubt it made a
>> big difference after that analysis. The coil probably would have done just
>> as well with out it.
>> For what it's worth, lets look at the top toroid simply sitting on the
>> bottom of the first toroid:
>> Ctoroid = 29.183pF (big difference from the 34.397 pF due to the 14"
>> separation).
>>
>> Clearly, the toroid at 14" above hit nearly 34.5pF. Ok, good for identical
>> toroids stacked with a decent distance apart.
>> Let us look at  a single "larger" toroid, and I'll only increase it by 25%
>> in both minor and major diameters (7.8125" x 26.25").
>> Ctoroid = 31.051 pF (Nice increase for only a single toroid).
>>
>> Now, I increase the original by only 50% (9.375" x 31.5"): Oh yea, that
>> toroid rocks!
>> Ctoroid = 39.325 pF
>>
>> Certainly beat out the dual stack. Only 50% increase with a single toroid
>> and I've certainly beaten the dual stack even at 14" separation! So, why the
>> need for dual, triple, etc.? No real need, more convenience and mechanical
>> in nature. If you have them on hand, use them. If you just happen to have a
>> nice 10" x 32" toroid lying around, then use it!
>>
>> Take care,
>> Bart
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Phillip Slawinski wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:56 PM, bartb <bartb at classictesla.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Looks perfectly acceptable to me! I like the distance you have between
>>>> toroids. Ed Sonderman did similar except to have put a sheet metal type
>>>> cylinder between the two toroids.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Was this for support, or otherwise?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> He did get some long sparks on this dual-stack toroid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Your base looks really nice also. I like those red colored standoffs!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Thanks, it's taken a lot of work to get my coil where it is now.  I've
>>> only
>>> been building coils since the beginning of May, I think I've made a lot of
>>> progress in the short time.  I scored the standoffs for free!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Bart
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
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>>>
>>>
>>>       
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