[TCML] Re: Tesla Digest, Vol 12, Issue 37
DC Cox
resonance at wildblue.net
Tue Oct 28 21:06:06 MST 2008
JAVATC will provide most all of the answers you need.
It does all the math and gives you correct design info from the start.
If you email off-list I can send you a nice design for a small coil that
runs on a standard 12 kV 30 mA or 60 mA nst.
Dr. Resonance
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Jerry Boman <mdg11fbf at gmail.com> wrote:
> Subject: Newby drowning with information overload & making first post.
> Hi all, I decided to try my hand at a TC about 1.5 years ago & began to
> educate myself on the art of coiling. I joined this list a few months back
> in hopes to gain a clearer understanding of how to do what I am trying to
> do...build a TC but in the process I'm finding myself more and more
> brainblocked as the days and months go by and I'm a bit intimidated with
> posting due to my confusion with some of the more simpler things like
> plugging the correct figures into a TC calculator to get some specific
> results but I have to get on with it or forget it so I'm posting in hopes I
> can get some direction. I have probably digested close to the volume of the
> library of congress in TC information and coilers websites and projects and
> that may be part of my problem. Would be a shame to give up though as I
> already have made a nice looking 3.5 inch diameter secondary that is 21
> inches tall wound with .028 wire at 29 wraps per inch = 609 turns and have
> made a fairly good looking 16 inch diameter toroid that is 6 inches deep &
> all mounted on a nice tier like stand. It beckons me to finish it daily. I
> have a 15000 volt NST rated 30 ma for my power supply and a gaggle of caps,
> wire, connectors etc. I also have a asynchronous vacuume motor for building
> my RSG and (6) 1.25 x 3 inch copper tubes for a stationary gap. Also have
> 1/4 inch copper refr. tubing for a primary coil. The caps I have aquired
> may
> be all wrong though..not sure; at the least I think they would be ok for
> the
> line voltage protection I will need. The caps I have aquired are as
> follows:
> (1) 7500 WVDC 0.1uF oil filled, (1) 12000 VDC .1MU-F pyranol cap, (4) 2000
> VDC .25MFD caps (small appx 1.5w x 1d x 2h)(all w/ceramic type posts). Also
> have aquired (2) 100watt 750ohm wire wound resistors I thought would work
> for my power supply protection. At this point I came up with 404.0443220
> for
> the freq of my secondary but not sure thats right and I'm still unsure what
> I need for capacitance for the tank circuit. With what I have provided in
> info so far can someone help me get pointed in the right direction for what
> I need. Any help appreciated in advance. Thanks, Jerry (mdg11fbf at gmail.com
> )
>
>
> 2008/10/28 <tesla-request at pupman.com>
>
> > Send Tesla mailing list submissions to
> > tesla at www.pupman.com
> >
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> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> >
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> > tesla-owner at www.pupman.com
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Tesla digest..."
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Argon Cannon Extra Credit (Phil Rembold)
> > 2. variac (jhowson4 at comcast.net)
> > 3. RE: variac (Richard Schmuke)
> > 4. Re: variac (bunnykiller)
> > 5. Re: variac (David Speck)
> > 6. Re: variac (Phillip Slawinski)
> > 7. Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL (David Rieben)
> > 8. Re: First light, small VTTC (futuret at aol.com)
> > 9. Variac (jhowson4 at comcast.net)
> > 10. Re: Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL (Phillip Slawinski)
> > 11. Re: Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL (Peter Terren)
> > 12. Open Day with big TC (Peter Terren)
> > 13. R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC (mazzilli vladimiro)
> > 14. Re: Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL (Yurtle Turtle)
> > 15. Re: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC (futuret at aol.com)
> > 16. Re: Javatc updated to version 11.9 (bartb)
> > 17. Re: Javatc updated to version 11.9 (bartb)
> > 18. RE: Variac (Garry neeley)
> > 19. Re: Variac (bunnykiller)
> > 20. Re: Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL (DC Cox)
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Phil Rembold" <prembold at gmail.com>
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:21:05 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Argon Cannon Extra Credit
> > Jeff,
> >
> > Thanks for the nice plug, I'll pass the word to Bill ...
> >
> > --
> > Phil Rembold
> > 817-831-0998
> > TCBFW
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 12:41 AM, Jeff W. Parisse <
> workshop at teslacoil.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > TCML,
> > >
> > > I'd like to give credit where credit is due.
> > >
> > > Bill Emery Jr. did ALL the gas work for the Argon Cannon. Based on my
> > > design, he and Phil Remboldt prototyped the unit at Phil's place in
> Texas
> > > and we hooked it up for the cameras here in Hollywood.
> > >
> > > Bill Emery Jr. and Phil Remboldt are fantastic engineers, clever
> > > technicians and fun people who really kick started that project into
> high
> > > gear.
> > >
> > > Thanks guys!
> > >
> > > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: jhowson4 at comcast.net
> > To: tesla at pupman.com (tesla list)
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:01:34 +0000
> > Subject: [TCML] variac
> > Hey guys i just got my 22.5 amp 0-140v variac in the mail.
> > I thought that the power here in my dorm was 30 amp but no its 20 so
> > needless to say I had to get maintnence to come flip my breaker back on.
> grr
> > Is there a way I can limit the current going into it so that it would be
> > take 10-15 amps from the wall. With out taking away my ability to go
> from
> > 0-140 volts.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jay H.
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Richard Schmuke" <rdj at wildblue.net>
> > To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:25:09 -0500
> > Subject: RE: [TCML] variac
> > What do you have plugged it to the Variac , does it overload the breaker
> > under load or is it a inductive load when you plug it in??
> >
> > Rich , KDØZZ
> > Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling or facts are transmission errors.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tesla-bounces at pupman.com [mailto:tesla-bounces at pupman.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of jhowson4 at comcast.net
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:02 PM
> > To: tesla list
> > Subject: [TCML] variac
> >
> > Hey guys i just got my 22.5 amp 0-140v variac in the mail.
> > I thought that the power here in my dorm was 30 amp but no its 20 so
> > needless to say I had to get maintnence to come flip my breaker back on.
> > grr
> > Is there a way I can limit the current going into it so that it would be
> > take 10-15 amps from the wall. With out taking away my ability to go
> from
> > 0-140 volts.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jay H.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla at www.pupman.com
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: bunnykiller <bunnikillr at cox.net>
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:02:44 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] variac
> > Hey Jay...
> >
> > there are 2 possible situations going on here.
> > 1. Sometimes a power surge ( rapid current usage) occurs when power is
> > applied to a Variac of substantial size.
> > 2. The load attached to the Variac could be pulling more than 15 A. With
> > the combination of both variac and load pulling current at once is a bit
> too
> > much for the breaker.
> >
> > If you have access to the breaker ( instead of calling Maint. each time
> it
> > goes off) try setting the variac to 50% with the load NOT attached to the
> > Variac, turn on Variac, turn Variac to 0%, attach load and then bring up
> > the voltage to prefered running capacity. If that doesnt work, repeat the
> > process but at a starting point of 80-85 instead of 50.
> > And a final idea, see if one of the physics or electronics labs has
> higher
> > current sockets available.... I'd try the electronics labs first ( they
> > will more likely to want to see it and help if they can).
> >
> > Scot D
> >
> > jhowson4 at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > Hey guys i just got my 22.5 amp 0-140v variac in the mail. I thought
> that
> >> the power here in my dorm was 30 amp but no its 20 so needless to say I
> had
> >> to get maintnence to come flip my breaker back on. grr
> >> Is there a way I can limit the current going into it so that it would be
> >> take 10-15 amps from the wall. With out taking away my ability to go
> from
> >> 0-140 volts.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Jay H.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Tesla mailing list
> >> Tesla at www.pupman.com
> >> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: David Speck <dave at davidspeckmd.org>
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:55:41 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] variac
> > Jay,
> >
> > You should put an ammeter on the unit to see how much you are pulling.
> You
> > have to adjust your load so that it doesn't draw more than 20 amps.
> Kinda
> > like having a car that theoretically could go 120, even though you can't
> > legally drive it above 65 in most places.
> >
> > A big Variac like this can sometimes trip the breaker immediately upon
> > being powered up, even with no load on it. This is due to a residual
> > magnetic state left occasionally in the core from the last time it was
> > turned off. A way to prevent these nuisance trips is to wire a beefy 10
> ohm
> > power resistor in series with the Variac primary which is then shorted
> out
> > by a suitably rated contactor (power relay) driven by the same power
> switch
> > as the Variac. The inherent mechanical delay on the contactor armature
> > gives a few AC cycles at restricted current through the Variac and allows
> > the magnetic state of the Variac core to normalize without tripping the
> > breaker.
> > Dave
> >
> > jhowson4 at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >> Hey guys i just got my 22.5 amp 0-140v variac in the mail. I thought
> that
> >> the power here in my dorm was 30 amp but no its 20 so needless to say I
> had
> >> to get maintnence to come flip my breaker back on. grr
> >> Is there a way I can limit the current going into it so that it would
> be
> >> take 10-15 amps from the wall. With out taking away my ability to go
> from
> >> 0-140 volts.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Jay H.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Phillip Slawinski" <pslawinski at gmail.com>
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:18:41 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] variac
> > Add a breaker that is a smaller value than 20A. In your case that will
> > probably be a 15A breaker. Some power strips have 15A breakers, maybe
> that
> > would work for you.
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 15:01, <jhowson4 at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey guys i just got my 22.5 amp 0-140v variac in the mail.
> > > I thought that the power here in my dorm was 30 amp but no its 20 so
> > > needless to say I had to get maintnence to come flip my breaker back
> on.
> > grr
> > > Is there a way I can limit the current going into it so that it would
> be
> > > take 10-15 amps from the wall. With out taking away my ability to go
> > from
> > > 0-140 volts.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jay H.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Tesla mailing list
> > > Tesla at www.pupman.com
> > > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "David Rieben" <drieben at comcast.net>
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:50:03 -0500
> > Subject: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm sure others have ran into this issue but I thought that
> > I would bring it up to alert relative newcomers and to re-
> > fresh the memories of us "old salts". As most of us are
> > already aware, the production of ozone (O3), along with
> > various nitrogen oxides, can become rather copius during
> > operation of Tesla coils, especially the smaller to medi-
> > um sized SGTCs or DRSSTCs. Without proper ventil-
> > lation, these gases can quickly reach toxic levels. From
> > my personal experience, the distinctive O3 odor seems to
> > actually become less noticable with higher powered SG
> > driven coils where the ground striking arcs become more
> > and more numerous and start to take on more power arc
> > characteristics than the typical purplish blue corona and
> > streamers. However, I never really gave much thought
> > to excessive toxic gas production in an improperly ventillated
> > area while just running or making large 60 hz. power arcs, like
> > in a large Jacob's ladder. Sure enough though, today while I
> > was playing around with my beloved 150 kvp, 600 mA x-ray
> > transformer, making some impressive power arcs, I began
> > to notice asthma-like symptoms with my breathing (and
> > I don't have asthma) and began to cough rather uncontrol-
> > ably. Funny thing was that I really couldn't smell any
> > O3 but I still got that feeling of inhaling too much O3.
> > Once I moved outdoors to fresh air, the symptoms went
> > away pretty promptly. I'm assuming that any electric
> > arc is going to produce some NOs, even though they may
> > not always have a detectable odor. It seems that it takes
> > longer to get over these symptoms after moving to fresh
> > air when the distinctive sharp odor of O3 is noted than it
> > did with today's "odorless" experience, though. Anyone
> > else have any more light to shead on this thread?
> >
> > David Rieben
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: futuret at aol.com
> > To: tesla at pupman.com
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:33:38 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
> > Vladi,
> >
> > There are so many factors to consider. Some tubes need more
> > feedback than others. My experiment was to test the idea
> > of using a high position for the grid coil which some folks
> > have found helpful. So far in tests with this small coil I didn't
> > see any advantage but of course this coil still needs more
> > optimizing in general.
> >
> > I used 19.7 turns on the primary I think, and the coil height
> > is about 2" of 16awg wire. The secondary is 2.5" x 8.875"
> > wound with 28awg wire for about 620 turns or so. No toroid.
> > The grid coil and primary are both 4.75" dia. The grid coil
> > uses 20 turns of 24awg magnet wire tapped at 12 turns.
> > MOT is a small 2000V unit with level shifter. Filament transformer
> > is 6.3V output, so I use a 50 ohm dropping resistor on the 120V
> > input to drop the output to 5V for the 4-125A vacuum tube.
> > The RF bypass cap is 0.001uF at 5kV mica, the grid leak cap
> > and filament bypass cap are both 0.001uF at 2.5kV.
> > No staccato.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > -------------------
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vladimiro Mazzilli <V.Mazzilli at aros.it>
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 5:07 am
> > Subject: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
> >
> >
> >
> > So seems better to use thin wire to have a good grid driving, but not too
> > tall
> > in order to no decrease the spark length?
> >
> > Vladi
> >
> > ----------------
> > I powered up my new small 4-125A VTTC and got 4" sparks
> > so far. They are the fuzzy type sparks. More tuning is needed.
> > I tried removing the MOT shunts, but the sparks didn't get
> > much longer so far. The tube plate gets red which is not surprising
> > for a 4-125A tube. I tied the grids together on the tube, and
> > I'm using 1500 ohms for the grid leak R. I tried 2500 ohms but
> > that gave very weak sparks. On a previous coil which used
> > a 4-250A tube, I got the same spark output with grids
> > tied together as when feeding the screen grid from a
> > dropping resistor. That coil also used a 1500 ohm grid leak resistor.
> > There is no toroid on the coil. Some tests I did in the past
> > showed that even the choice of vacuum tube type can
> > make the sparks either fuzzy or sword-like. This may suggest
> > that some parameter was not optimized for each tube.
> >
> > I did a quick experiment with a raised grid coil. Normally
> > I allow about 1/2" space between the primary and grid coil.
> > I raised the grid coil by about 3" as a test. The sparks
> > got much weaker. So I moved the grid coil tap so I used
> > 20 turns instead of 12. This increased the spark length
> > almost to what it was with the lowered grid coil. This
> > secondary is only 8.875" long, so raising the grid coil
> > by 3" is a lot for this small coil. I tried various grid
> > coil heights and generally speaking, the spark output
> > varied with the grid coil height. A higher grid coil
> > gave weaker output sparks. These results are
> > preliminary because the coil still needs more tuning.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: jhowson4 at comcast.net
> > To: tesla at pupman.com (tesla list)
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:33:30 +0000
> > Subject: [TCML] Variac
> > Ok this is attempt 3 my e-mail keeps saying that there was a sending
> error.
> > so if 3 of the same message were in fact sent i am sorry.
> >
> > Ok so i think that this so called surge is the culprit since at the time
> of
> > the breaker being blown I was trying to figure out where a weird sound
> was
> > coming from and this entailed turing it on and off. learing from my
> > mistakes i won't be doing that again... ever...
> >
> > How much current is the norm if nothing is plugged into it? If the unit
> is
> > rated for 22.5 amps why is it not pulling that much power all the time?
> >
> > How does starting the variac with it turned up help. I understand what
> you
> > want me to do but I am curious as to why it works.
> >
> > Even if the surge current was the culprit i want to be sure before I plug
> > it back in and the people start asking why stuff blew.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jay. H
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Phillip Slawinski" <pslawinski at gmail.com>
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:36:27 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> > David,
> >
> > I've made this mistake before. I was playing with my 6" coil in the
> > garage,
> > and I ignored the smell. I left the garage with a sore throat, and
> > coughing. This was while the coil was poorly tuned, once I got the coil
> > properly tuned it stopped making so much ozone. I haven't even noticed
> an
> > ozone problem with my VTTC. That seems to produce far more NOx than
> ozone.
> > At least the NOx does not smell as terrible as Ox :)
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 16:50, David Rieben <drieben at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'm sure others have ran into this issue but I thought that
> > > I would bring it up to alert relative newcomers and to re-
> > > fresh the memories of us "old salts". As most of us are
> > > already aware, the production of ozone (O3), along with
> > > various nitrogen oxides, can become rather copius during
> > > operation of Tesla coils, especially the smaller to medi-
> > > um sized SGTCs or DRSSTCs. Without proper ventil-
> > > lation, these gases can quickly reach toxic levels. From
> > > my personal experience, the distinctive O3 odor seems to
> > > actually become less noticable with higher powered SG
> > > driven coils where the ground striking arcs become more
> > > and more numerous and start to take on more power arc
> > > characteristics than the typical purplish blue corona and
> > > streamers. However, I never really gave much thought
> > > to excessive toxic gas production in an improperly ventillated
> > > area while just running or making large 60 hz. power arcs, like
> > > in a large Jacob's ladder. Sure enough though, today while I
> > > was playing around with my beloved 150 kvp, 600 mA x-ray
> > > transformer, making some impressive power arcs, I began
> > > to notice asthma-like symptoms with my breathing (and
> > > I don't have asthma) and began to cough rather uncontrol-
> > > ably. Funny thing was that I really couldn't smell any
> > > O3 but I still got that feeling of inhaling too much O3.
> > > Once I moved outdoors to fresh air, the symptoms went
> > > away pretty promptly. I'm assuming that any electric
> > > arc is going to produce some NOs, even though they may
> > > not always have a detectable odor. It seems that it takes
> > > longer to get over these symptoms after moving to fresh
> > > air when the distinctive sharp odor of O3 is noted than it
> > > did with today's "odorless" experience, though. Anyone
> > > else have any more light to shead on this thread?
> > >
> > > David Rieben
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Tesla mailing list
> > > Tesla at www.pupman.com
> > > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Peter Terren" <pterren at iinet.net.au>
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 07:58:03 +0900
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> > Odour sensation fatigues rapidly so you stop smelling noxious stuff after
> a
> > short while. There are physiological processes in the body that use
> nitric
> > oxide as a local vasodilator and this is sometimes used therapeutically
> by
> > inhalation and nitrous oxide N2O is an anaesthetic agent so presumably
> > neither of these cause coughing. NO2 I am not so sure about and may be a
> > culprit. The only time I have had similar bronchospasm is with burning
> > sulphur with ? sulphur dioxide formation.
> > Fortunately I have the space and weather to run my TC's outdoors.
> > Peter
> > www.tesladownunder.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Rieben" <drieben at comcast.net>
> >
> >
> > ... As most of us are
> > already aware, the production of ozone (O3), along with
> > various nitrogen oxides, can become rather copius during
> > operation of Tesla coils,
> > ..... today while I
> > was playing around with my beloved 150 kvp, 600 mA x-ray
> > transformer, making some impressive power arcs, I began
> > to notice asthma-like symptoms with my breathing (and
> > I don't have asthma) and began to cough rather uncontrol-
> > ably. Funny thing was that I really couldn't smell any
> > O3 but I still got that feeling of inhaling too much O3.
> > Once I moved outdoors to fresh air, the symptoms went
> > away pretty promptly. ......
> > David Rieben
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Peter Terren" <pterren at iinet.net.au>
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:08:30 +0900
> > Subject: [TCML] Open Day with big TC
> > I had an open day attended by 70-80 people. While not a true Teslathon,
> the
> > highlight was the 18 inch Tesla coil show. That segment started with a
> demo
> > of sparks onto a fluoro, burning a string of CD's, burning some wood held
> in
> > my hand and the popular Dalek cage. After that everyone got the chance
> to
> > have their pic taken under a firing TC so there were about 30 shots of
> this.
> > I used a long exposure of 5 seconds. Initially the flash goes off to
> catch
> > the people under the TC whic is off. They then run away and I run to turn
> > the TC on for about a second. It's a nice effect and very popular with
> kids
> > of all ages.
> > I also had about 50 of my other projects on display.
> > Details and pics here.
> > http://tesladownunder.com/Tesla%20display.htm#Open08
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "mazzilli vladimiro" <vladmiro.mazzilli at tiscali.it>
> > To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:10:43 +0100
> > Subject: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > You said that the primary has 19.7 turns of 16awg wire, how method do
> > you use to tune the system? I normally use magnet wire also for the
> > primary 19awg or two or three smaller paralleled between, and I use a
> > spacer (another magnet wire of 24,26awg) that I remove at the end of
> > winding. Then I scratch the enamel on the last windings and look for the
> > best tuning. But how do you succeed with an insulated wire? I'm curious
> > for the number 19.7!!
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Vladi
> >
> >
> > -----Messaggio originale-----
> > Da: tesla-bounces at pupman.com [mailto:tesla-bounces at pupman.com] Per conto
> > di futuret at aol.com
> > Inviato: martedì 28 ottobre 2008 23.34
> > A: tesla at pupman.com
> > Oggetto: Re: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
> >
> >
> > Vladi,
> >
> > There are so many factors to consider. Some tubes need more feedback
> > than others. My experiment was to test the idea of using a high
> > position for the grid coil which some folks have found helpful. So
> > far in tests with this small coil I didn't see any advantage but of
> > course this coil still needs more optimizing in general.
> >
> > I used 19.7 turns on the primary I think, and the coil height is about
> > 2" of 16awg wire. The secondary is 2.5" x 8.875" wound with 28awg wire
> > for about 620 turns or so. No toroid. The grid coil and primary are
> > both 4.75" dia. The grid coil uses 20 turns of 24awg magnet wire tapped
> > at 12 turns. MOT is a small 2000V unit with level shifter. Filament
> > transformer is 6.3V output, so I use a 50 ohm dropping resistor on the
> > 120V input to drop the output to 5V for the 4-125A vacuum tube. The RF
> > bypass cap is 0.001uF at 5kV mica, the grid leak cap and filament bypass
> > cap are both 0.001uF at 2.5kV. No staccato.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > -------------------
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vladimiro Mazzilli <V.Mazzilli at aros.it>
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 5:07 am
> > Subject: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
> >
> >
> >
> > So seems better to use thin wire to have a good grid driving, but not
> > too tall
> > in order to no decrease the spark length?
> >
> > Vladi
> >
> > ----------------
> > I powered up my new small 4-125A VTTC and got 4" sparks
> > so far. They are the fuzzy type sparks. More tuning is needed. I tried
> > removing the MOT shunts, but the sparks didn't get much longer so far.
> > The tube plate gets red which is not surprising for a 4-125A tube. I
> > tied the grids together on the tube, and I'm using 1500 ohms for the
> > grid leak R. I tried 2500 ohms but that gave very weak sparks. On a
> > previous coil which used a 4-250A tube, I got the same spark output with
> > grids tied together as when feeding the screen grid from a dropping
> > resistor. That coil also used a 1500 ohm grid leak resistor. There is
> > no toroid on the coil. Some tests I did in the past showed that even
> > the choice of vacuum tube type can make the sparks either fuzzy or
> > sword-like. This may suggest that some parameter was not optimized for
> > each tube.
> >
> > I did a quick experiment with a raised grid coil. Normally
> > I allow about 1/2" space between the primary and grid coil.
> > I raised the grid coil by about 3" as a test. The sparks
> > got much weaker. So I moved the grid coil tap so I used
> > 20 turns instead of 12. This increased the spark length
> > almost to what it was with the lowered grid coil. This secondary is
> > only 8.875" long, so raising the grid coil by 3" is a lot for this small
> > coil. I tried various grid coil heights and generally speaking, the
> > spark output varied with the grid coil height. A higher grid coil gave
> > weaker output sparks. These results are preliminary because the coil
> > still needs more tuning.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > John
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla at www.pupman.com http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Yurtle Turtle <yurtle_t at yahoo.com>
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:16:42 -0700 (PDT)
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> > Only that NOx can form nitric acid in your moist nose and lungs.
> >
> > More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_oxide
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 10/28/08, David Rieben <drieben at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > From: David Rieben <drieben at comcast.net>
> > > Subject: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> > > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla at pupman.com>
> > > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 4:50 PM
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'm sure others have ran into this issue but I thought
> > > that
> > > I would bring it up to alert relative newcomers and to re-
> > > fresh the memories of us "old salts". As most of
> > > us are
> > > already aware, the production of ozone (O3), along with
> > > various nitrogen oxides, can become rather copius during
> > > operation of Tesla coils, especially the smaller to medi-
> > > um sized SGTCs or DRSSTCs. Without proper ventil-
> > > lation, these gases can quickly reach toxic levels. From
> > > my personal experience, the distinctive O3 odor seems to
> > > actually become less noticable with higher powered SG
> > > driven coils where the ground striking arcs become more
> > > and more numerous and start to take on more power arc
> > > characteristics than the typical purplish blue corona and
> > > streamers. However, I never really gave much thought
> > > to excessive toxic gas production in an improperly
> > > ventillated
> > > area while just running or making large 60 hz. power arcs,
> > > like
> > > in a large Jacob's ladder. Sure enough though, today
> > > while I
> > > was playing around with my beloved 150 kvp, 600 mA x-ray
> > > transformer, making some impressive power arcs, I began
> > > to notice asthma-like symptoms with my breathing (and
> > > I don't have asthma) and began to cough rather
> > > uncontrol-
> > > ably. Funny thing was that I really couldn't smell any
> > > O3 but I still got that feeling of inhaling too much O3.
> > > Once I moved outdoors to fresh air, the symptoms went
> > > away pretty promptly. I'm assuming that any electric
> > > arc is going to produce some NOs, even though they may
> > > not always have a detectable odor. It seems that it takes
> > > longer to get over these symptoms after moving to fresh
> > > air when the distinctive sharp odor of O3 is noted than it
> > > did with today's "odorless" experience,
> > > though. Anyone
> > > else have any more light to shead on this thread?
> > >
> > > David Rieben
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Tesla mailing list
> > > Tesla at www.pupman.com
> > > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: futuret at aol.com
> > To: tesla at pupman.com
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:16:34 -0400
> > Subject: Re: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
> >
> > Hi Vladi,
> >
> > I cannot tune this primary. I tune using the capacitor. I probably
> > should have made some taps or something, but I made it fixed at
> > 19.7 turns. I just picked what I thought would be a good figure
> > based on a reasonable tank Q. The primary wire is PVC insulated
> > wire. It's 19.7 to make it convenient to connect to the capacitor
> > from a physical layout standpoint. My reasoning was that anywhere
> > from 18 to 21 turns would give similar performance as long as
> > the system is tuned OK with the capacitor. I added a variable
> > cap to fine tune the system. Possibly I have to add another
> > fixed cap or something because the performance is rather wimpy.
> > I may not have enough tuning range. When I turn up the power,
> > the spark reaches a certain length then plateaus, so I probably
> > need more tank capacitance.
> > I tried installing a 4-400A tube and it didn't help the performance
> > much, so I suspect a tuning issue.
> > However I know this 4-400A tube is somewhat defective (weak).
> > The secondary resonant frequency is about 1Mhz.
> >
> > John
> > ----------
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mazzilli vladimiro <vladmiro.mazzilli at tiscali.it>
> > To: 'Tesla Coil Mailing List' <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 7:10 pm
> > Subject: R: [TCML] First light, small VTTC
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > You said that the primary has 19.7 turns of 16awg wire, how method do
> > you use to tune the system? I normally use magnet wire also for the
> > primary 19awg or two or three smaller paralleled between, and I use a
> > spacer (another magnet wire of 24,26awg) that I remove at the end of
> > winding. Then I scratch the enamel on the last windings and look for the
> > best tuning. But how do you succeed with an insulated wire? I'm curious
> > for the number 19.7!!
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Vladi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: bartb <bartb at classictesla.com>
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:04:24 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Javatc updated to version 11.9
> > Hi Scot,
> >
> > For the rotary, I use no arc voltage equations since it is a timing
> > function. Rounded electrodes will get a little closer to alignment before
> > firing than flat electrodes will. The flat electrode approaching sides
> will
> > arc sooner. But this is no big deal as even rounded electrodes do this
> also,
> > but only to a slightly lesser degree depending on size and curvature. I
> > think rounded electrodes will last longer for the same power level since
> hot
> > spots should be lessened due to the mass at the edge. This is probably
> the
> > main benefit of rounding the electrodes. Performance won't change between
> > the two, just edge life.
> >
> > I rounded the tungsten electrodes on my rotary. I placed the rod in a
> drill
> > and spun the end on a large file moving the drill from 90 degress down to
> > almost horizontal until I got a decent rounding. Then spun the electrode
> in
> > stainless steel to polish up the end. Worked great and easier than I
> thought
> > it was going to be (still a lot of work).
> >
> > Take care,
> > Bart
> >
> > bunnykiller wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Bart...
> >>
> >> I have been using the online version of the Javatc alot in tha last few
> >> days crunching numbers for my next coil and noticed that in the static
> gap
> >> area there is the option of flat vs. round electrodes and how it makes a
> >> serious difference in arc propigation distances. My question is.... on
> >> rotory gaps, does the usage of flat geometries as opposed to rounded
> >> electrodes make a difference too?? Seems that with flat electrodes in a
> >> rotory gap system would be prone to "pre-alignment of the electrode arc
> >> jumping" to some degree. It definately showed up on my gap system ;)
> >>
> >> BTW... XP and Firefox 3.0 combination running JavaTC will shut down
> >> Firefox completely on my computer.
> >>
> >> Scot D
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: bartb <bartb at classictesla.com>
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:16:00 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Javatc updated to version 11.9
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> > Yep, Firefox 3.0.3 is fast. I stopped using Netscape a long time ago when
> > version 6 came around (lazy and slow). IE6 did best up until Firefox came
> > along. Now Firefox is about 3 times faster than IE.
> >
> > The VI distribution should run ok. It will first show a set of voltages
> > with a base current of 1 amp. But it isn't finished at that point. It
> > basically performed a low detail run to provide the base current and some
> > inductances and it then continues a second run inserting this new base
> > current. This final run increases the detail for a larger number of data
> > points along the length of the coil and will replace the first set of
> > numbers with more realistic values. At that point, it's done. Takes about
> 1
> > or 2 minutes of crunching time.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Bart
> >
> > bunnykiller wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Bart...
> >>
> >> Back again, I downloaded Firefox 3.0.3 and retried JavaTC works very
> nice
> >> and quick... alot faster than Netscape 7.0, 8.0 and Flock.
> >>
> >> Firefox 3.0.3 crunches the numbers in about 3-5 seconds as compared to
> the
> >> 20 - 30 seconds for the Netscapes and Flock.
> >> Didnt try the secondary voltage run...
> >>
> >> Scot D
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Tesla mailing list
> >> Tesla at www.pupman.com
> >> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Garry neeley <bamacoiler at gmail.com>
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:24:22 -0500
> > Subject: RE: [TCML] Variac
> > Philip suggested that yopu add a 15a breaker, I agree. If you wire a
> > breaker in series with the primary the breaker you add should trip before
> > the one in the panel and you should be safe.
> > Garry Neeley
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jhowson4 at comcast.net
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:33 PM
> > To: tesla list <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Subject: [TCML] Variac
> >
> > Ok this is attempt 3 my e-mail keeps saying that there was a sending
> error.
> > so if 3 of the same message were in fact sent i am sorry.
> >
> > Ok so i think that this so called surge is the culprit since at the time
> of
> > the breaker being blown I was trying to figure out where a weird sound
> was
> > coming from and this entailed turing it on and off. learing from my
> > mistakes i won't be doing that again... ever...
> >
> > How much current is the norm if nothing is plugged into it? If the unit
> is
> > rated for 22.5 amps why is it not pulling that much power all the time?
> >
> > How does starting the variac with it turned up help. I understand what
> you
> > want me to do but I am curious as to why it works.
> >
> > Even if the surge current was the culprit i want to be sure before I plug
> > it back in and the people start asking why stuff blew.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jay. H
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla at www.pupman.com
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: bunnykiller <bunnikillr at cox.net>
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:08:00 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Variac
> > Hey Jay...
> >
> > having the wiper somewhat in the middle of the windings seems to reduce
> the
> > initial magnetic flux thru the core of the variac. Depending on how you
> have
> > the Variac wired for output, it can be a healthy inital surge. If wired
> for
> > say line voltage in and line voltage out at max rating, the surge is
> almost
> > minimal when starting( turning on) the variac at full voltage since the
> > wiper is at the end of the windings with little magnetic field flux being
> > produced. If you have it wired for 120 in and 140 out at max settings,
> there
> > is going to be the inital magnetic flux incurred to give you the 140 V
> out.
> >
> > The unit is rated for 22.5 amps current capacity, in other words it will
> > handle a current of 22.5 amps max thru it to the load it is supplying. If
> > you were to put a load on the variac that can draw more than 23 amps, the
> > Variac will overheat and smoke and eventually die... most of the times,
> > variac failure occurs where the wiper ( brush) is in contact with the
> > windings, either the brush arcs out or the windings melt and break.
> >
> > Just wondering.... how do you have the variac wired up???? Did it come
> > with a prewired wall plug attached, or did you have to put one on
> yourself?
> > What brand is the Variac??
> > Scot D
> >
> >
> > jhowson4 at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > Ok this is attempt 3 my e-mail keeps saying that there was a sending
> >> error. so if 3 of the same message were in fact sent i am sorry.
> >>
> >> Ok so i think that this so called surge is the culprit since at the time
> >> of the breaker being blown I was trying to figure out where a weird
> sound
> >> was coming from and this entailed turing it on and off. learing from my
> >> mistakes i won't be doing that again... ever...
> >>
> >> How much current is the norm if nothing is plugged into it? If the unit
> is
> >> rated for 22.5 amps why is it not pulling that much power all the time?
> >>
> >> How does starting the variac with it turned up help. I understand what
> >> you want me to do but I am curious as to why it works.
> >>
> >> Even if the surge current was the culprit i want to be sure before I
> plug
> >> it back in and the people start asking why stuff blew.
> >>
> >> Thanks, Jay. H
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Tesla mailing list
> >> Tesla at www.pupman.com
> >> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "DC Cox" <resonance at wildblue.net>
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla at pupman.com>
> > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:05:53 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Noxiuos fumes from high powered arc/JL
> > I've always said one has to be very careful using Tesla coils in
> apartment
> > rooms, basements, closed garages, and other closed up or partially
> enclosed
> > areas.
> >
> > I first experienced very similar experiences in 1962 - 1965 running coils
> > in
> > my basement without good ventilation. O3 is also considered
> carcinogenic,
> > so long term
> > effects have not been carefully studied.
> >
> > Solid state and IGBT type coils are much more efficient and dump much
> > higher
> > currents into the secondary inductor thus increasing the O3 effects.
> >
> > Use caution and stay healthy. If you have to run in an enclosed area,
> > consider short operational periods of 10-15 sec, then use a fan to blast
> > any
> > O3 out a nearby window.
> >
> > Dr. Resonance
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 2:50 PM, David Rieben <drieben at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'm sure others have ran into this issue but I thought that
> > > I would bring it up to alert relative newcomers and to re-
> > > fresh the memories of us "old salts". As most of us are
> > > already aware, the production of ozone (O3), along with
> > > various nitrogen oxides, can become rather copius during
> > > operation of Tesla coils, especially the smaller to medi-
> > > um sized SGTCs or DRSSTCs. Without proper ventil-
> > > lation, these gases can quickly reach toxic levels. From
> > > my personal experience, the distinctive O3 odor seems to
> > > actually become less noticable with higher powered SG
> > > driven coils where the ground striking arcs become more
> > > and more numerous and start to take on more power arc
> > > characteristics than the typical purplish blue corona and
> > > streamers. However, I never really gave much thought
> > > to excessive toxic gas production in an improperly ventillated
> > > area while just running or making large 60 hz. power arcs, like
> > > in a large Jacob's ladder. Sure enough though, today while I
> > > was playing around with my beloved 150 kvp, 600 mA x-ray
> > > transformer, making some impressive power arcs, I began
> > > to notice asthma-like symptoms with my breathing (and
> > > I don't have asthma) and began to cough rather uncontrol-
> > > ably. Funny thing was that I really couldn't smell any
> > > O3 but I still got that feeling of inhaling too much O3.
> > > Once I moved outdoors to fresh air, the symptoms went
> > > away pretty promptly. I'm assuming that any electric
> > > arc is going to produce some NOs, even though they may
> > > not always have a detectable odor. It seems that it takes
> > > longer to get over these symptoms after moving to fresh
> > > air when the distinctive sharp odor of O3 is noted than it
> > > did with today's "odorless" experience, though. Anyone
> > > else have any more light to shead on this thread?
> > >
> > > David Rieben
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Tesla mailing list
> > > Tesla at www.pupman.com
> > > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla at www.pupman.com
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> "FREEDOM"=The result of intention and action against tyranny. "Live Free -
> Be Free"
> _______________________________________________
> Tesla mailing list
> Tesla at www.pupman.com
> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
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