[TCML] Secondary Coil Wire

[Robert Davies]

bartb wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>
> I think two wires side by side has been done before. The limitation is 
> the number of turns you can put on the coil as you've probably looked at.
>
> The form is fine. I've used both thick and thin without problems.
>
> As far as programs, Javatc is absolutely the most accurate program. 
> Teslamap is a neat program as far as a nicely formatted calculator and 
> doesn't have the layout limitations that we have with Javatc 
> (html/javascript). But from an accuracy standpoint, Teslamap is 
> several years behind the times. Old Javatc 9.1 and the late John 
> Coutures JHCTES program were both run exactly like this in the early 
> days of programs for TC use (forced to using top load error 
> percentages, etc.). Both of those were spin offs of Ed Sonderman's 
> spreadsheet. Javatc has always set the bar high. Teslamap is still 
> using old methods, but they do get you in the ballpark. There is a 
> problem in Teslamap with the secondary capacitance (way off). But, 
> just a calculation error I suspect. The other numbers are fine I guess 
> without nitpicking too much. The top load is the big problem in 
> Teslamap. Teslamap can't predict the effects of external capacitance 
> (including the topload). The best it can do is calc the isolated C and 
> allow an error value which you can input. I checked a coil with 
> Teslamap just now and it required a 30% reduction to get close to the 
> actual measured value. This is no surprise. I remember being forced 
> into the same limitation years ago in Javatc.
>
> Javatc has stood on the shoulders of giants. Thanks to the TSSP and 
> Paul Nicholson specifically, Javatc does account for most of these 
> situations and many others not even attempted by other programs. 
> There's no reason that Teslamap couldn't do the same (but Kevin would 
> need to do some major updates, and that is a daunting task). Doing 
> these programs is far more difficult than creating a spreadsheet 
> calculator.
>
> Javatc is simply my way of giving back to the community of coil 
> builders. No profits or anything of that nature. I am by no means 
> dogging Teslamap, so please don't misinterpret. Teslamap is fine for a 
> general Tesla Coil calculator and has the best format I've seen. But 
> when a question is raised about accuracy, Javatc wins hands down 
> because it has always "kept up" with the knowledge base of Tesla Coil 
> physics.
>
> Javatc input data is designed for "no limitations". Thus, you can 
> experiment freely with various spacing ratios, h/d's, geometries, or 
> whatever (and you will be handed more information than you will know 
> what to do with). That is of my own doing. Most of the outputs are of 
> my own choosing and the things I look at in a coil design. Javatc is 
> actually written specifically for "me". I chose to make it available 
> for all. I have always maintained this attitude with Javatc. Imagine 
> if you wrote a spreadsheet for your own TC calculations. Same kind of 
> thing, except I put it up on the web for others to use also.
>
> Best regards,
> Bart
>
>
>
> Robert Davies wrote:
>
>>  What do you all think of using two wires side by side like say a red 
>> and green 20ga  soldered with silver solder  at the ends but rolled 
>> up the coil together as one?
>>
>>   If you haven't guessed I have acquired my secondary form. I have 
>> several pieces of 12" 10" and 8" sch 40/80 pvc water main/sewer pipe 
>> , yea a little heavy on the sch but the price is right "Free".The 12" 
>> is the blue type, I would guess that color doesn't matter?
>>
>>  I have also been using the available TC design packages such as 
>> JAVATC and TeslaMap. Is one any better than the other or should I use 
>> both and and split the difference between  them? I have noticed some 
>> different numbers each produces with the same input parameters.
>>
>> Rob
>> KI4HXT
>>
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>
  Thank you so much for the input Bart that was exactly what I was 
looking for, I have dabbled in some coding myself and I know what an 
undertaking it can thus I rely upon people more skilled than I for that 
task.Thank you again for that!! I figured I wasn't breaking any new 
ground but I hadn't run across any post about it yet.
 I would also like to say and give props to all here for making this 
mailing list such a great place. I have been involved with other lists 
and all too many times they get corrupt with members bashing each other 
for various reasons or elitist behavior from the more knowledgeable 
members when newcomers ask questions that have been asked a million 
times before, I have seen none of that here and you can't believe what a 
breath of fresh air it is.

 I hope Scot didn't think I was picking on him about the pole pig thread 
but coming from a law enforcement background and seeing it first hand I 
know how quickly things can go south for someone even if there was no 
intention of wrong doing. I would hate to see someone get in trouble 
over a none intentional mistake. I do apologize if it was not presented 
in the sincerest concern manner it was intended.

Thank you all,
Rob