[TCML] Looking for pulse cap

Ken or Doris Herrick kchdlh at sonic.net
Thu Sep 17 12:29:44 MDT 2009


You're right, Herr Zapp.  Do the right thing; if for no other reason, 
it'll make you feel better about yourself.

KCH


Quarkster wrote:
> <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">Matt -
>
> Actually, profit margins for "commodity" component manufacturers are 
> very, very small. If you were to compare the profit margins for every 
> link in the component distribution chain, you will almost always find 
> that the MANUFACTURER has the lowest profit margins, frequently 
> operating at only a few percentage points of gross revenue. If you are 
> offering a sole-source proprietary component, margins can be quite a 
> bit better, but for commodity resistors, capacitors, etc. margins are 
> universally low.
>
> When a domestic manufacturer approaches a zero-profit margin situation 
> with a particular product, he has several options:
> 1. Discontinue the product;
> 2. Move the production of the product to a location where 
> manufacturing costs are (temporarily) lower (Mexico, China, etc).
> 3. Reduce material costs by using lower-quality materials, and 
> possibly reducing product performance margins (product still "meets" 
> specs, but is not as robust).
>
> In the case of C-D capacitors, as Tesla coil builders we certainly 
> don't want options #1 or #3 to occur.
>
> As Americans, we shouldn't want option #2 to occur.
>
> I may be in the minority, but the approach of "lying to get free 
> stuff" is just fraudulent and doesn't seem be the right way to conduct 
> your business.
>
> (A slightly different scenario, but I had the same gut response when 
> immediately after the Gulf hurricane disasters, some list members were 
> gleefully gloating about all the "free" pole pigs that they could 
> simply pick up and haul off, not giving a damn about who might suffer 
> in the long run.)
>
> It's just not ethical.
>
> (End of rant.)
>
> Herr Zapp
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Mddeming at aol.com>
> To: <tesla at pupman.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Looking for pulse cap
>
>
>>
>>
>> Even hundreds of samples constitute a miniscule part of  their 
>> advertising
>> budget. Hundreds of thousands are spent each year to get  their name 
>> out in
>> front of potential buyers.  Even if they weren't, when I  think of 
>> affecting
>> the bottom line of a multimillion-dollar corporation by a  dollar or 
>> so I
>> can only say:
>> Pffblblblblpppttttt!!
>>
>> Matt D.
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 9/16/2009 10:25:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> quarkster at att.net writes:
>>
>>
>> Shannon -
>>
>> Sorry, but in my opinion presenting a manufacturer with a  totally
>> fraudulent
>> "manufacturing plan" to try and "trick" him into  providing free 
>> samples is
>> completely unethical. It may even be  illegal.
>>
>> All "sample" parts provided by manufacturers cost money to  
>> fabricate, test
>> and ship. Manufacturers provide samples to Engineers and  product
>> developers
>> to stimulate usage of the parts in real-world products,  which 
>> results in
>> volume sales of that component and profit for the company.  By lying 
>> to a
>> manufacturer about your bogus "product requirements" and  potential 
>> future
>> sales, and obtaining samples based on those fraudulent  claims, you are
>> negatively affecting that manufacturer's bottom  line.
>>
>> American manufacturers are slowly being squeezed out of business by  
>> many
>> factors. Don't add to their problems by cheating. Unfortunately, most
>> component manufacturers don't really have the resources to check the
>> legitimacy of sample requests.
>>
>> If you REALLY have an interesting or  unique application for a
>> manufacturer's
>> components, talk to someone in the  company's Marketing department, 
>> and let
>> them know that while your project is  simply an amateur experiment, 
>> it may
>> be
>> an interesting new application for  their product, that you would 
>> like them
>> to consider helping to support your  project, and that you will send 
>> them a
>> report and photos of the completed  widget.  If they agree, great. If 
>> not,
>> then just save your pennies and  buy parts like the rest of us.
>>
>> If you can't affort to purchase the parts  for your Tesla projects, 
>> take up
>> a
>> different hobby.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Herr  Zapp
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Weinhold Shannon L"  
>> <Shannon.L.Weinhold at doc.state.or.us>
>> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List"  <tesla at pupman.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:04  AM
>> Subject: RE: [TCML] Looking for pulse cap
>>
>>
>> You could always try  to obtain samples from Cornell Dubilier...
>> They are pretty motivated to  provide them if you present them with a
>> well written usage plan indicating  that you intend to incorporate them
>> into something that you are manufacturing  and intend to purchase a lot
>> more in the future.
>> I'm not going to say how  many they sent me, but they are plenty 
>> generous
>> to potential  customers.
>>
>>
>> "Failures are divided into two classes
>> those who  thought and never did,
>> and those who did and never thought."
>> John Charles  Salak
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dave Leddon  [mailto:dave at leddon.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:25 PM
>> To:  Tesla Coil Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [TCML] Looking for pulse  cap
>>
>> Phillip, Steve,
>>
>> Thanks for your insight.  You both  responded almost simultaneously with
>> the suggestion that I raise the value of  my tank cap to 1 uf which has
>> several advantages, not the least of which is  that it reduces the
>> capacitor count down to something almost  manageable.  Using the
>> 940C8W2K-F caps ($5.99 at rell.com) I could get  by with 9 strings of 17
>> each and given that I already have 38 of these on  hand my out of pocket
>> expense would only be, ka-ching $690.  Still a bit  more than I can
>> justify.  So if anybody knows where I can score 1 uf at  around 10,000
>> volts for less money, please let me  know.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>> Pleasanton, ca
>>
>> At 11:20 AM 9/15/2009, you  wrote:
>>> Herr Zapp,
>>>
>>> The lower voltage ratings you may have  seen were for 2 reasons: less
>>> current and secondly, they were over  stressed.
>>>
>>> I used to run my MMC caps with peak AC voltages at the  DC rating, and
>>> after enough time, one by one, the caps would fail.   Testing shows 
>>> that
>>
>>> the cap makers arent fibbing about the VAC  ratings, stick with that 
>>> and
>>
>>> it will last for a really long  time.
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> Id suggest going up higher than .5uF,  perhaps to 1uF or so (i didnt
>>> specify this in our correspondence).   Im running 1.25uF on an
>>> experimental setup at 1500A, but a lower  frequency.  While you get 
>>> less
>>
>>> amp-turns in the primary, you do  arrive at the higher peak current
>>> level faster, which translates to  achieving a certain top voltage on
>>> the toroid faster, which is more  efficient (in my data i saw a 20%
>>> efficiency improvement going from 8  cycles to 5 cycles of operation by
>>> increasing the tank cap value).   You have current to spare with those
>>> big CM600s, so you should have no  problem producing well over 10 foot
>>> sparks (id guess in the 14-16 foot  range, secondary coil 
>>> withstanding).
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> On Tue,  Sep 15, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Quarkster <quarkster at att.net>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Matt -
>>> >
>>> > Eh??
>>>  >
>>> > Clearly, my post contained no answers whatsoever, only  questions to
>>> > try to gain a better understanding of Dave's rather  unique capacitor
>> requirements.
>>> >
>>> > Most of the large  DRSSTCs that I've seen get by using a cap with a
>>> > lower voltage  rating, but they may not actually be attaining a
>>> > primary current of  2400A.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Herr Zapp
>>> >  ----- Original Message ----- From: <mddeming at aol.com>
>>> > To:  <tesla at pupman.com>
>>> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:37  PM
>>> >
>>> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Looking for pulse cap
>>>  >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Hi Herr Zapp,
>>>  >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Interesting  questions, but how do they relate to answering the
>>> >> question  Dave asked?
>>> >>
>>> >> Matt D.
>>> >>
>>>  >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>  >> From: Quarkster <quarkster at att.net>
>>> >> To: Tesla  Coil Mailing List <tesla at pupman.com>
>>> >> Sent: Mon, Sep 14,  2009 4:36 pm
>>> >> Subject: Re: [TCML] Looking for pulse cap
>>>  >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Dave -?
>>>  >> ?
>>> >> A few questions:?
>>> >> ?
>>>  >> 1. How are you calculating the voltage requirements for the  tank
>> cap??
>>> >> ?
>>> >> 2. How large a multiplier are  you using to define the capacitor's
>>> >> voltage margin (safety  factor)??
>>> >> ?
>>> >> 3. What is the manufacturer's  voltage rating for the IGBTs you will
>>
>>> >> be using??
>>>  >> ?
>>> >> 4. What is the calculated peak primary  current??
>>> >> ?
>>> >> Regards,?
>>> >> Herr  Zapp?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>  >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Leddon"  <dave at leddon.net>?
>>> >> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List"  <tesla at pupman.com>?
>>> >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009  11:19 AM?
>>> >> Subject: [TCML] Looking for pulse cap?
>>>  >> ?
>>> >> Hi all,?
>>> >> ?
>>> >> ? I'm  working on a fairly large DRSSTC and I find that an MMC
>>> >>  adequate to
>>> >>
>>> >> ?the task may be out of my  financial reach. If I were to push the
>>> >> igbt
>>>  >>
>>> >> ?bridge to its limits I would require a cap rated at  20 kv at 0.5
>> mfd.
>>> >>
>>> >> ?This begins to sound  like pole pig territory. If anyone has a cap
>>> >> like
>>>  >>
>>> >> ?this that they would consider selling, or if they  know of a
>>> >> resource that
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I  can pursue, please let me know.?
>>> >> ?
>>> >>  Thanks,?
>>> >> Dave?
>>> >> Pleasanton, Ca?
>>>  >> ?
>>> >>
>>> >>>  _______________________________________________?
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>>> >>> Tesla at www.pupman.com?
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>>> >>>
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>>> >>
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>>> >>
>>>  >
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