Re: Tesla's Energy Transmission (Warning: Another Long Post)

Hi all,
           I would like to add a few thoughts to this thread:

> Original Poster: NickandSim-at-aol-dot-com 
> Hi Mike,
>             nice to see I'm not alone :-) My comments:
> << Hi all,
>  Just thought I'd throw in a few comments about this.  Food for thought
as it 
>  were.
>  >  
>  >  The Springs system worked at "about" 40kW.  "Similar" power distribution
>  >  ground systems "I" have worked with can "sink" (gulp) 250 Megawatts with
>  >  ground effects at 100 yards away being zilch.  Yep, that's here in dry
>  >  sandy Colorado too...  I think the "ground" can sink one "heck of a
lot of
>  >  juice".
>  >  
>  But this was NOT using longitunal waves as Tesla said he was generating.
> Exactly
>  >  
>  >  100 MegaJoules????  If I remember right, he used about say 30kV at 60 Hz.
>  >  That would give a cap value of 1.85mF.  Tesla's salt water caps fell far
>  >  short of that...  The 1899 Colorado Springs power plant was not in
the 100
>  >  megawatt class...
>  >  
>  I seem to remember reading that he used a 60kV Westinghouse transformer.  
>  That would increase the energy by a factor of 4 from what state above in 
> that 
>  respect alone.   Also, didn't he use a rotary gap that would deliver a 
> firing 
>  rate MUCH higher than 60Hz?  This would allow the use of a smaller cap and 
>  much more power throughput.  I thought he used toothed wheels that allow
>  break rates well over a thousand BPS. 
> I think the actual drive set up is irrelevant - the recorded terminal 
> voltages tell us all we need to know. 

Recorded or estimated?  Also, BPS has nothing whatever to do with 

>  >  
>  >  Where is "it written" that Tesla got a 120 foot spark, and where "on
>  >  in 1899" did he find a Giga Joule????
>  >  
>  I thought the 120 foot sparks were indeed achieved once - just before he 
> blew 
>  out the Colo. Spgs. power company's generators :o).

That was reported in O'Neill's biography. I would take such reports 
with a very large dose of salt. Clearances between the mast leading 
up to the tower and the opening in the roof were ??  My suspicion is 
that a mains resonant in the primary charging circuit was 
responsible. That, or possibly the kind of kickback that kills the 
insulation in our beloved NSTs?  Note - the generators were miles 
from the gap system.

   I was under the 
>  impression that the longitudinal "ground" waves were to be achieved by 
>  operating down around 20kHz or less. I am also under the impression that 
>  Tesla was attempting to excite a natural earth resonance(Schumman resonance 
>  as they are now called) of about 7.8 Hz or perhaps a harmonic of such.  All 
>  of this was a result of his observation of lightning (see his paper "The 
>  Problem of Increasing Human Energy").   
> Tesla was not attempting to excite the Schumman resonance as this is an 
> earth/ionosphere effect not a ground effect.  The whole point of my
theory is 
> that he was using charge waves, which are not subject to the inverse square 
> propogation law.      

He saw the earth as a confined conducting medium which concurs 
with that view. It is a terribly lossy medium none-the-less.

>  >  
>  >  One has to remember that the output "load" of a Tesla coil is basically 
> the
>  >  local capacitance of the surrounding objects with loss.  This
represents a
>  >  very "local" effect.  There is little that allows energy to travel
>  >  this local area of a Tesla coil even if it is a "big one" like Tesla
>  >  Tesla made one great "Tesla coil number uno".  However, the world power
>  >  transmission thing seems to have fallen to pieces.  Sounded good but it 
> has
>  >  never been demonstrated, proven, worked, etc...  
>  If I understand what I have read about all this, Tesla's longitudinal waves 
>  would travel along the surface like the waves in a pond after a rock was 
>  tossed into it and that with the proper frequency, the waves would 
>  constructively interfere with each other after reaching the opposite point 
> of 
>  the earth.  Note that he never claimed to actually transmit current (which 
>  would be incredibly lossy as Terry points out), but rather, he was
>  to create nodal points that one could then "pick off energy" by placing two 
>  strategically place ground rods that would always be at different 
> potentials. 
>   With the properly tuned receiver, one could utilize telluric currents and 
> it 
>  would place no load on his generator.  Incidentally, I also think that what 
>  he said about getting usable amounts of energy could have been merely a 
>  matter of perspective.  In his days, there were no televisions or washing 
>  machines or refrigerators(ok you get the idea).  A usable amount of power 
>  might have simply been enough for a couple of lightbulbs and a radio 
>  receiver.  A person in the middle of nowhere might appreciate that
amount of 
>  freely available power.  
>      One other note about this is that in order to achieve this,  Tesla 
>  actually avoided the streamer discharge that we all try to maximize these 
>  days.  That is why his Wardenclyffe tower was designed with such a large 
>  topload(I forget at the moment, but wasn't it about sixty something feet in 
>  diameter?).
> 68
>   Another point is that his tower was over two hundred feet tall.  
>  There would be no "local" objects to load down his tertiary coil, would 
>  there?  With such a large radius of curvature, tremendous voltages could be 
>  achieved without the spark discharge and then the Q of the secondary would 
> be 
>  very large.  In this mode of operation, I believe the quarter wave
theory is 
>  valid rather than the lumped element notion that is valid with streamer 
>  discharge.  These are two entirely different modes of operation.  
> I agree on your point that the  lamda operation does not apply under 
> streamer loaded conditions.  The effects that this lack of streamer load had 
> on the behaviour of the resonant system are also obvious.
>  >  
>  >  Sorry, but after 80+ years of playing with it, the results are still 
>  zero...
>  > 
>  I seem to remember reading about a system that operated in Canada during 
>  Tesla's lifetime, although is was not as large as the Wardenclyffe
tower.  I 
>  also just recently read about some so called Scalar weapons and a "Tesla 
>  Shield" developed by the Russians that are reported to work from Tesla's 
>  principals.  These were said to have been witnessed by pilots in Afganistan 
>  who saw the effects from several miles away, so who knows how accurate this 
>  is.  I just mention it to stir up a little controversy :o)
> I to have read of these huge russian tesla coils - although some of the
> eg. mind control, which they are creditted with seems a little far fetched.
>  >  It is easy to "write and say" things like "1 Giga Joule" of energy (even 
> in
>  >  Tesla's day).  However, "Me thinks" I would notice it, if it was really
>  >  true ;-)))  Even a Giga Joule is not that much power by today's standards
>  >  of power generation.  Lasers and other "single shot" systems can easily
>  >  reach that "standard".  However, no known Tesla coil system comes within
>  >  0.5% of it....
>  >  
>  It is also easy to dismiss Tesla's theories if you are trying to think
>  them in regards to conventional EM theories, but unless someone actually 
>  duplicates his work EXACTLY,  how can it be proved that he was incorrect?   

Robert Golka reconstructed the CS machine in the hopes of making 
ball lightning. There is no record that he succeeded in that goal 
either. In fact, his reversion to the use of large accumulators melting 
iron attests to his lack of success. Surely high power machines 
(some modern ones operating at far higher powers than Tesla ever 
did) should be causing all sorts of mayhem ?

>  Perhaps it is due to my lack of electronic training(I learned most of
what I 
>  know on my own) that allows me to think that there could be more than meets 
>  the eye in this area.  I have read and reread as much of the available 
>  material about Tesla in hopes of catching on to what he was really
>  which is difficult to do this since one has to filter through other's 
>  opinions and ideas as to what Tesla himself was thinking.  All I can really 
>  say is that he insisted that his longitudinal waves were not like the 
>  ordinary Hertzian waves and yet we still today try to equate the two.  
> My point is that they were not an EM phenomenon. 
>  >  Cheers,
>  >  
>  >   Terry
>  >  
>  I won't give up my opinion on this at this point  :o)   I still think Tesla 
>  had something there that nobody today quite understands as he did.  I will 
>  not change my mind until someone builds a coil system EXACTLY like Tesla's( 
>  with a fifty foot plus diameter primary/secondary and the correspondingly 
>  large tertiary coil and topload etc.), then pumps a few megawatts  into the 
>  system, and THEN shows that he was wrong.
>  Mike >>
> I don't think that will be necessary - or possible.
> Regards
> Nick Field 

It has been done and nothing unexpected has resulted from the