Re: Ammonia spark gap ?

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "Jason Petrou by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>" <jasonp-at-btinternet-dot-com>

Luc, Duncan, all
If you actually look at the haber process to get amonia you need a heck of a
lot of pressure, like 400 atmospheres. If you put the gas in at a really low
pressure it wouldnt matter about the temperature - the low pressure would
mean that a high temp would have no effect. If you got a standard SG bulb
from an old transmitter, and fed a little ammonia into it it may work... ill
give it a go with some distilled household ammonia (which if is not
distilled is *completely* useless by the way) some time when im older! I
still theink the best bet is an RSG though (IMHO :))

Be safe,
Jason (still 16)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
To: <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 3:41 AM
Subject: Re: Ammonia spark gap ?


> Original poster: "Luc by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>"
<ludev-at-videotron.ca>
>
> Hi Duncan, Jason, all
>
>
>
> > Like the reverse of the Haber process!  It sounds like a good enough
> > idea to me, only better be sure you've got no leaks, good ventilation
> > etc round the gap when you're filling up from the cylinder.  If
> > something goes horribly wrong and you get a face-full of ammonia
> > believe me you'll know all about it (found that one out the hard way a
> > long, long time ago.  Not nice.)  Perhaps a safer and cheaper way,
> > since you won't need much ammonia, would be to heat household ammonia
> > solution gently and pass the vapour through a tube filled with silica
> > gel to dry it.
> >
> > Dunckx
> > Geek#1113 (G-1)
>
>
> Household ammonia with silica was my first idea before I read
> Jason post. I know, the danger is real with ammonia. When I was
> young a family living near my house have a really old freezer
> using ammonia one night the system broke and start to leak the
> result was a dead baby and a blind little sister. I had use 30%
> ammonia solution at job for an old teletype color photo process:
> just a sniff of that stuff is like a hit of an hammer between
> your eyes.
>
>
>
>
> > Good idea, but there are a couple of problems:
> >
> > 1) Firstly, the Nitrogen + Hydrogen is not a standard chemical reaction.
It
> > is in equilibrium, which means that depending on ambient conditions, you
> > will have a certain amount of H2 and N2 as well as NH3. the problem is
this:
> > The equation for this reaction is 6H2 + N2  <-> 2NH3 (I think). The high
> > pressure side is the side with the H2 and N2 gasses, so if you run the
whole
> > thing in a container, it will produce a very small amount of nitrogen
and
> > hydrogen because the equation moves towards the low pressure NH3 end
> > (because there are less moles of gas on the NH3 side and gas takes up
the
> > same volume per mole regardless of its density) Therefore the high
> > temperatures and pressures will mean that regardless how much ammonia
gas
> > you put into the container, you will get almost no hydrogen and nitrogen
to
> > dissociate. (for more info or a better explanation mail me off list)
>
>
> Tx Jason you convince me and save me a lot of trouble ;-) I
> really mean it.
>
> >
> > 2) Hydrogen is very light and will quench very fast, but will easily
form
> > plasma, the reason that much of the suns mass is H plasma and not, for
> > example, lead plasma. Therefore you will get a plasma stream in your
SG -
> > not exactly what you want.
> >
> > 3)The whole thing gets very hot (especially with plasma) and there is no
way
> > to cool a sealed container
> >
> > 4) The glass world probably crack under the heat.
>
> It's true but my first idea is not a seal system and any way a
> seal system is possible to cool I saw many example in industry:
> it's possible to have a kind of blow gap with a gas pumping
> circuit across an heat exchanger.
>
> By the way I finally find information on the web the problem is
> that I search for amonia instead of ammonia :-(
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Luc Benard
>
>
>
>