Alternator Demos For NEOTESLATHONICS/ NE Ohio Coilers

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "harvey norris by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com>

I like the NEO name Mark Metlica used to describe this
kind of research. All of the demonstrations with a car
alternator can be rewired within a manner of minutes.
Today I rewired one demo for a single test of the 10
KVA pole pig where the acting impedances of 4 branch
circuits essentially turns three phases into 1, in a
resonant current limiting possibility. This was torn
down after making a variation of the same idea that
instead produced 6500 volts from three 16 volt stator
inputs, in what seems to be a questionable adaptation
of a BRS to 3 phase, using ferromagnetic voltage rise
made 180 out of phase with a resonant one.  So far
almost every step of the way has been another obstacle
or delusion. If it is only a mere delusion, that can
hinder research for weeks,by induced wild goose chases
caused by false assumptions: but then you can be glad
is was just a delusion and not a serious limitation,
that OBSTACLES will provide in regard to HOW REAL
COMPONENTS BEHAVE VS THE PREDICTIONS MADE BY IDEAL
COMPONENTS. We are practical inventors, not solely
theorist's where the theories of electrical branches
and their deliveries sometimes seems  not worth the
toilet paper it is written on. If the components
behaved ideally Tesla like conceptions of harnessing
the very wheelwork of nature might be realized by
simply creating a spatial interaction of electric and
magnetic fields in interphased resonances. I have one
model of this and another also.{FLUX CAPACITORS)It has
taken years to even secure the requirements for the
possibilities, initially by sizing considerations
considered impossible, and then revealed as possible
where the limitations were responsible for the
formation of the possibility! So before they throw me
to the dogs for off topic postings let me get back to
what has already been done, and if you want to see it
again, get there early!

The yearly event is still on for Sat Sept 8th. The
year of being 45 is a good 9 year, so on the 8th I
will be 46. Like Tesla, I like to have festivities
near my birthday. There also being seven nines in my
HDN name, this is also Tesla's birthday, july 9th. But
my birthday is the inverse of that at 9-7-55. Now all
of this seems irrevalent and severely off topic, but I
also wish to indicate that some of my interests
intersecting with tesla coiling, also intersect with
deceased individuals we might also call "Tesla
Prototypes." One of these is Andrija Puharic, who
purportedly belonged to a cult of nines. Now Puharich
also specified a patent of high frequency water
electrolysis where he names a 3rd harmonic tetrahedral
resonant frequency of 32,800 some hz or so.

Quite beyond belief, and what I was trying to show by
scope input at last years event was the standing wave
length  set up that will produce a scope registered
31,250 hz. Contrary to the popular assertations made
by status quo belief  correctly pointed out that a
solenoidal single winded tesla secondary will ALWAYS
have a resonant frequency HIGHER than that given by
quarter wavelength considerations. I can perfectly
agree with this assesment here, and have made tests on
my own secondary of inneficient design that indicate
even a higher than expected resonant frequency. This
far too off topic to continue as I am only back
editing this for a posting that is already far too
long. But I have to make a point in context, with what
I claimed last year, that positively did not work, 
and that was a method of determining a resonant
frequency of a coil/ by electrostatic or changing
electric fields in space and time method. Apparently
that method only works with coils of a certain gauge
wire, because it more involves surface areas. The
smaller tight curvatures of fine gauge wire of a
typical tesla secondary do not respond to this method.
However if those secondaries instead were given the
magnetic induction influence of being placed near the
high induction coils causing the high freq effect:
than I think that they would  register their natural
resonant frequency to an oscilloscope quite easily:
given the fact that the 25 pf scope internal
capacitance is also often the top load capacity chosen
for a medium size tesla coil.

Other things aside I have prepared a more spectacular
demonstration of this electric field effect this year.
This is a LONGITUDINAL extraction of induction
conversion by changing electric field in space, via
intermediary of a magnetic ferrite core. My thesis is
that preliminary investigations of only a longshot
racetrack guess of a resonant frequency of a ferrite
magnetized material can start out about as a
guestimate as 25/1 reduction reduction from 1/4
wavelength value indicated by what former testings at
60 hz have delivered. There is nothing wrong with
saying that an air core solenoid will have a higher
than quarterwavelength  value of resonant frequency.
But there are also MANY unconventional geometric
designs where the opposite effect is noted where the
resonant frequency is INSTEAD LOWERED from the the
quarterwavelength value. Knowing the influence of
geometry of windings is essential in that something
requiring a picnic table of coils producing a
desirable low  resonant frequency can also be produced
with much lower q by a coil that you can hold in the
palm of your hand! This is a square coil That I was
told came out of a microwave oven: I SURE WOULD LIKE
TO HAVE MORE OF THESE, If anyone knows where these
specially wound coils can be bought, sold or ransomed!
This(low resonant frequency) may not be desirable in
the art of tesla coiling, but to other hitherto
unpractical undiscovered industrial applications this
may become IMMEDIATELY PRACTICAL. Of relevance in this
case for high frequency electrolysis is the production
of a  electrical standing wave of the astoundingly low
frequency of 31,250 hz. The first thing a tesla coiler
would know is that it would have to be a astoundingly
long length of wire. By quarterwavelength
considerations it would have to be about 7500 ft. By
reducing the resonant frequency via use of multi
layered turns of  14 gauge coils  this can be reduced
to 5000 feet. These are exactly the open ended natural
resonant frequencies  produced from my alternator  3
phase DSR= DELTA SERIES RESONANCES. As Tesla might
say, here we have 3 phases of source frequency
resonance inposed on a collection of 31,250 hz
resonators. However those resonators do not have the
freedom of vibration to vibrate at their natural
resonant frequency, because, not understanding the
nature and solution of catastrophic resonant
circuits,(CRC): their application is being served as a
resonator of the source frequency. Understanding the
solution to the CRC problem entails that a short, or
modified forms of a short, between the generated 
resonant potentials will always prevent it from
becoming a catastrophic amperage demand made by open
midpoint loads of the DSR's. What this means is that a
CRC can be relatively inexpensively put behind the
DSR's that normally vibrate at 31,250 hz, and then the
endings of those coils can be attached to 3 sets of
plates which are actually 3 sets of electrolysisor
plates. When water is poured in the bottom of this
electrolysisor, connecting all the plates it
establishes the precondition of establishing the
semblance of a short as an internal load, which keeps
the (new)outer DSR from demanding a catastrophic
amount of current. As we fill this vessel, at a
certain amount of water volume, the counterpart of
capacitive reactance inherent as a component of that
acting short will balance the  requirements of needed
capacitance for that 150 mh comparatively high
inductance that creates the 31,250 hz standing wave.
In fact given the dimensions of the present vessel,
and the acting dielectric constant of water at 40, it
is even possible to predict how far the water will
fill the vessel before this kind of resonance is
achieved. Given the fact that at this input frequency
of 480 hz already tends to easily emit sound
vibrations of a high ringing intensity, these
combinations of this with a water capacitor eerily
reminds ones of Ernest Worrel Keeley's somewhat's
mythical work in this regard. In any case I have gone
severely off topic, so I hope Terry will allow this
long post now returning to the original subject.
{NOTE; the following falls under DELUSION, and not
OBSTACLE, where a delusion implies an obstacle of our
own making}

Tests conducted today indicate it should be (might
be)feasible to offer the alternator inputs routed to a
10 KVA pole pig to run a  TESLA PRIMARY.  Any coiler
wishing to try this is welcome to, but I would suggest
using my 10 kva pole pig. This is because the
necessity of using all 3 phases for power input,
combined into one phase of application actually
consists of a three phase power correction circuit,
where the reactance of the (transformer)primary load
will be factored into the equation. It might be
possible to simply plug things into the system using
your own step up transformer,  but then the resonant
ballasting might be off.

Most folks understand that a neon transformer is
current limited on the secondary. REMARKABLY OR
PERHAPS EITHER BENEFICIAL OR DETRIMENTAL, the way this
pole pig is current limited by resonant ballasting, if
you place a short on the secondary, the primary
voltage input will go to (near)zero but the amount of
primary current inputed will remain the same as the
current limiting  value established by impedance. This
should insure the actions of a quenched gap.

However I am unsure whether the  car alternator will
be able to deliver the voltages for a primary arc gap,
and whether the input current requirements will be
high enough. So I will quickly calculate these to see
if anyone can make comments whether it should be
realistic to expect these levels to power a tesla
primary. {After punching thes no.s out, I see that it
is not feasible with a car alternator -at- 480 hz 3
phase, because of the low amount of power that could
be inputed with this plan}

The highest practical output of  the alternator is 40
volts. The current limiting will be that of 33 mh -at-
480 hz, so for a 40 volt input, the X(L) quantity(can
be estimated as Z) at 6.28*480*.033= 99.4 ohms. This
should allow only 400 ma to primary, with also a
reduction of voltage at the primary to a predicted
40*.026/.033= 31.5 volts across primary, making a 62.5
voltage gain for only 1968 volts for primary arcing,
but only a possible meager reactive power input of
12.6 watts! So after hammering out these figures I can
see that the use of 14 gauge 500 ft spools for
resonant balancing to be prohibitive. I will instead
say that unless a set of 4 low resistance inductors
with appropriate large capacities to resonate -at- 480 hz
are obtained, the possibilities of a 480 hz car
alternator powered tesla coil are impossible with this
scheme. Instead I will reconsider what a 80 volt input
-at- 360 hz from the monster bus alternators can deliver.
If this is worthy of possibility, it will be done with
the  four 11 mh values.

The way such a scheme would work has been tested for
neon secondary loads,(-at- 480 hz car alternator input)
which can actually show a power factor correction. We
ordinarily would suspect such a thing to be
impossible, since power factor correction normally
applies only to reactive loads. To speculate how a
reactance is involved also implies that of its
transformer connection, so we can speculate that the
current limited primary sees a reduction of its
inherent impedance measured at open load, when instead
the secondary is shorted by an unballasted neon
discharge load. The current limiting factor occurs not
on the secondary but by the input primary side. A test
today showing the principle records a 15.8 ma stator
delta supply line,(there are 3 of these), but a 92 ma
input to primary lighting the 4 inch neon on secondary
of pole pig. 

    What is done is the following; three delta series
resonances are constructed as the initial delta loads.
A normal consideration in placing those loads is that
it will be able to hold the amperage they will conduct
at series resonance. However that situation does not
have to exist, providing that we are not using a
series resonance. The conversion factor becomes the
fact that if all three resonances are equal, we can
connect all the middle points in the (DSR)= delta
series resonant) circuits as an inner triangle, and
this will convert the resonances into three tank
circuits connected in wye, where the total circuit
then draws q squared times less current, with q amount
of current internal to the tank circuits, which shows
the resonant rise of amperage with regard to that
inputed, vs that obtained internally in the circuit.
This is the real world actions of real tank circuits,
and how they act in reality when RESONATED AT THE
SOURCE FREQUENCY. A tesla primary tank circuit doesnt
quite fit the mold there, BECAUSE THAT CIRCUIT IS NOT
BASED ON A RESONANCE OBTAINED FROM THE SOURCE
FREQUENCY, but rather at the (MUCH)higher frequency of
the secondary it intends to resonate. The system of 14
gauge coils used to gain resonant voltage rise(BY
BEING RESONANT TO THE SOURCE FREQUENCY) consists of 3
phases of .15 henry, 12.5 ohms. By using .75 uf for
resonance, it can deliver a 26 fold rise of voltage to
another resonance, consisting of high induction coils
themselves providing a further 6 fold voltage rise. A
working 150 q voltage gain can be accomplished in this
manner. By using a resonance within a resonance to
provide voltage gain only works if the resistance of
the inner system is high compared to the outer. In
fact the idea led to the creation of making 180 phased
systems out of three 120 degree phased inputs. By
placing a resonance between two 120 degree phased
resonant inputs, we have itself  phase shifted that
resonance 60 degrees between them. We can take the
remaining delta series resonance, and disconnect it
and instead hook up the 62.5/1 voltage gain provided
by ferromagnetic pig pole transformer. Its secondaries
in turn can resonate one of the high induction coils.
Each of these (two) high induction coils will have a
voltage rise 180 out of phase with each other. I have
a demo set up showing about 6500 volts created in this
manner, for three 16 volt stator inputs. The
plexiglass capacitors emit a high pitched ringing
noise, possibly a third harmopnic of the 480 hz input.
It is this same idea of combining 3 phases into 1 that
led to the idea of getting rid of the high induction
coils, whose resistance is prohibitive for pole pig
primary current limiting, and instead I merely added a
single 14 gauge coil -at- 11 mh using 7 uf for its
capacitance, between the resonant midpoints of two of
the outer delta series resonances. From there one of
the primaries of the pole pig were attached, and the
other attached to the remaining DSR midpoint. We have
now created a current limited pole pig transformer,
whose voltage input will also drop to near zero, if we
short out its secondary. The current limiting factor
becomes the impedances of the outer delta resonances,
which have been turned into tank circuits, by the
addition of two inner pathways as virtual impedance
shorts across the series resonances.

What becomes somewhat problematic is the differences
of resonant q values. The existing DSR set up will
deliver a q voltage rise of -at-26 (appearently using
only one midpoint pathway dramatically increases that
factor)for series resonance, but only 14.6 for tank
resonance. This means that 14.6 times less current
will enter the circuit from the delta supply lines,
than exist inside it, and this is experimentally
recorded. When we add the reactance of an empty loaded
pig secondary to this circuit as the interior resonant
load, its input primary  voltage will be determined by
the impedance that source sees. This corresponds to
observations that the impedance of the 10 KVA pole pig
primary is ~ 280 ohms -at- 480 hz input.(A cited 360%
deviance -at- 480 Hz that occurs using a real
component,vs reactive calculations made using the
Ideal acting values it should deliver by formula) vs
the The impedance of a .15 henry phase is
6.28*480*.15= 452.1 ohms This is a ratio of .619. This
same ~ratio of input stator voltage distribution
occurs on the pig primary, prior to neon firing on
secondary, where its impedance appears as that of a
primary with open secondary. Thus a 16 volt stator
will then distribute 10 of the 16 across the pole pig
primary. About 17 or 18 volts stator the neon will
fire, and the impedance the outer resonant coils see
as an internal load will have completely changed,
where when across the pig primary it reaches about 11
volts producing an instant drop to 3 volts upon neon
firing. From there increasing the stator voltage will
not signicantly draw any more amperage from the stator
delta supply lines, instead the increasing amperage
with increasing voltage input occurs only on the pole
pig primary, and increased neon display. The very
unusual display of increasing  tank q with increasing
voltage application is (initially without considering
all parameters)evidently made, where the situation is
normally the reverse! The 3 volt input to primary
firing a 4 inch neon on secondary will also remain at
that level, even though the outside stator voltage
goes up many times that value( by a variac rectified
DC input to field control) It is that situation that
shows the ample need for a separate tuning for 3 phase
tank wye resonance. I have done this before for a 188
hz shorted DSR where I think using LTR caps were used
for to make a better tank resonance. In any case upon
neon bulb firing, the impedance change the circuit
sees indicates that the load has made it appear as an
~ 3 fold decreased impedance. Here is where the
inductance comparisons appear to apply as the  primary
inductance at 26 mh is roughly 1/6th of the DSR phase
inductance of .15 henry, and when the bulb first fires
the pig primary voltage will be reduced to that about
1/6th that present on the stator. So from these
considerations it should be understood that if a
tuning were made to find the best capacities to be
used for tank circuit shorts, that will not in itself
be the best tuning to be used when instead we make the
load, not a short, but the reduced impedance present
on a primary loading a  secondary neon as short. The
best capacities for one situation, may not be the best
for a different impedance load, which is the whole
business of power factor correction to begin with.
Having made a tuning based on shorts, it should be
recognized that adding the slightly inductive
reactance of neon  secondary discharge as a load to
that tuning means that the former tuning now has
slightly more inductive reactance than its balanced
amount of capacitive reactance, therefore more
capacitive reactance would need to be added or the
capacity must be reduced. This also correlates with
the fact that adding 1/6th more inductance to the
DSR,(that factor added in by adding the inductance of
the pole pig primary) would mean using 1/6th less
capacity, and these would be the kind of power factor
corrections that would be needed, depending on WHAT
KIND OF REACTANCE THE POLE PIG SECONDARY SEES!

In fact as we should all know, because the LC tank
(tesla)primary is designed for a much higher than
input frequency of resonance, the reactance it sees at
the actual source frequency is practically all
capacitive reactance(prior to actual arcing).
Therefore that capacity used in the tesla primary
initially needs to be placed solely on the pole pig
secondary, and the amperage draw on primary noted.
This is totally necessary to determine possible
deviations that real components will deliver vs the
values determined by formula. To illustrate;At 480 hz
the deviations real components can deliver have
included
1) a 360% increase of actual impedance of pole pig
reactance vs that determined by formula.
2) a 60% increase of actual impedance of ~58-60 henry
air core coils vs that determined by formula
3) a 6% variance in plate capacitive reactances
determined by formula vs actual reactances.

Once one ascertains the actual capacitive reactance as
a real component,one is further along in the ball
game. This also indicates that the modeling of a small
length neon plasma  secondary (unballasted from that
end)discharge as to what  might occur if a tesla
primary tank discharge were instead present to be
possibly entirely erroneous! Instead that reactive
load the pig primary would see on its secondary would
be primarily capacitive. This might be even better
modeled by placing that capacity in parallel to the 4
inch neon, and then noting the primary input
impedance, as a result of the voltage present on that
primary, by this means of resonant to input frequency
primary ballasting.

The logic behind this follows from the facts that by
making no adjustment of capacities on the outer DSR,
and adding a inductive reactance  modeled as a
secondary neon discharge from the primary, as an
internal load to that system, the resonant q of
amperage rise with respect to the delta supply line
input amperages was decreased from 14.6 to 7.5 (with
100 ma internal amperage to pole pig primary, one of
the Delta supply lines will contain 7.5 times less
amperage as exists inside the pole pig primary, where
paradoxically the increased voltage levels at stator
will seemingly show an increasing q factor, depending
on what voltage is inputed. To counter this gain is
the fact that the ratio of voltage distribution to the
pole pig primary, vs that present on the alternator
stator will also decrease at the same time the amount
of resonant rise of amperage increases. Thus it may be
entirely inaccurate to say the q is actually
increasing with increased voltage application, but
that might be the initial impression  of observing the
resonant ampearage rise without completely analysing
all the aspects) Had an actual power factor correction
been attempted, where the capacity were reduced to
allow for the increased inductive reactance present as
that internal reactance load, the q reduction from
14.6 to 7.5 might not have been so reduced.

To end this long winded speculation, the speculations
are only that, but are necessary to ascertain  or
predict the given  actual circuit conditions and what
will happen in that operation. To begin with it is
doubtful any one would design such a 3 phase circuit,
without first noting the midpoint interactions of a
DSR resonant midpoint interaction. Such a circuit
using only 11 mh on the 4 legs as I have outlined with
a  40 volt alternator input represents a potentially
CATASTROPHIC RESONANT CIRCUIT. Somewhat unusual in
this application is the fact that it is safe to allow
a short across the secondaries, but it is NOT SAFE to
allow the pole pig primary to ever become unconnected
as a load. If this were to happen one of the phases
would then become series resonant, producing an
amperage demand of 40/1.25 ohms or 32 amps! Another
(possible)reason such a thing would never be sensibly
attempted is the fact that without knowing that a
midpoint short itself (on 3 equally valued DS
resonances)causes a conversion from series to tank
resonance, the causitive factor itself that can
prevent such a catastrophic resonance would not be
initially understood. It is somewhat initially
baffling to know that given two different options of
DSR maximum amperage consumption vs that of a parallel
path option of q squared times more impedance to
input, that the voltage source will always take a
current path chosen by the highest impedance option!
This is so far universally proven in my testings, but
only on the first stage in a multistaged system where
on the second stage some contradictions to that fact
seem to exist.

To try and finally conclude here, if such a capacitive
reactance made by secondary pole pig connection is
noted as a reactive impedance on the primary the power
factor correction made by introduction of inductive
impedances added to primary as a current limiting
factor, CAN ALSO INCLUDE THE NET REACTANCE ADDED BY
THE INTERNAL LOAD AS EVIDENCED BY PRIMARY CONSUMPTION.
Therefore it is suspected the new scenario of a tesla
primary tank circuit consisting of primarily a
capacitive reactance loading upon the input frequency
will mean that instead of capacity being subtracted
from the DSR's to procur the needed condition of
increasing the capacitive reactance to counter the
addition of inductive reactance, which ocurrs on the
case of an unballasted neon secondary load, INSTEAD
THE OPPOSITE CONSIDERATION is in order. This will mean
less capacitive, and not more capacitive reactance
needs to be added to the DSR's to be resonant for the
entire load. This translates as a greater required
capacitance than exists on the DSR in a short tuned
system will then be required. One of the initial
stumbling blocks in reactance terminology can
initially be noted that reactance is expressed in
ohms, and the converse relationship in capacitive
reactance is where a higher reactance value,(ohmic)
actually means a lower valued capacity is required to
fulfill  the increased ohmic value. Here an extra
(net)capacitive reactance viewed from the source
frequency is being added by introduction of a tesla
primary tank circuit on secondary of transformer.
Manipulations and testing of the circuit can determine
the best acting q resonant rises of amperage internal
to the circuit available by reactance cancellation,
for conditions of trisectional short of DSR. This then
implies that Larger than Resonant,(LTR) capacity
values, that supply less than capacitive reactance
ohmic values need to be used for this form of RESONANT
PRIMARY INPUT IMPEDANCE BALLASTING, or more properly
put current limiting on that unballasted transformer.
I encourage other theorists to more accurately
describe these things in better electrical
terminologies than I have done here, where I have
somewhat confused the terms "ballasting" and "current
limiting of primary" Perhaps Jim Lux or someone well
versed in electrical terminology can more accurately
point out the more technical differences between the
usages of these terms as I have confused them to be
somewhat analogous here. I think perhaps the
difference here is that the term "ballasting" more
properly applies to a current limiting made on
secondary of transformer, rather than what I am
describing where it is accomplished on the primary.

In this circumstance I have also tried the
CONVENTIONAL approach of placing capacities across the
primary itself, to accomplish this theoretical power
factor correction, rather than changing the cap values
of the external DSR's to compensate. Ferromagnetic
transformer components simply do not have the ability
to offer good power factor corrections, that air core
, low resistance/comparably high inductance coils can
provide. The conventional approach did not deliver the
expected results, or could only be harmoniously
combined with the existing DSR to deliver a worse
performance, than if they were never included. This is
why the conventional approach is abandoned in this
instance, as when it was tried in a single test, the
neon secondary discharge could only be accomplished,
(also)with less eficiency by doing exactly opposite of
what would be suspected, by placing the desired
capacity in series, and not parallel. Including these
types of(air core) coils for current limiting of a
pole pig primary increases the ability of the circuit
to counter the (lower q tank resonant amperage rises)
inherent in a purely ferromagnetic approach. This
opportunity is generally not grasped with 60 hz
applications because of cost and corespondingly huge
capacities that would have to be employed with 60 hz
resonances. However with the input of higher
frequencies available with alternator inputs, this
becomes immediately a practical application and
option.

I will dig up a past reference on tesla list
concerning the ability of  a series resonant voltage
gain to respond equally as a resonant amperage
gain,where it does not, showing that indeed the same
kind of effects are also found in single phased
resonant circuits. I dont have that actual posting
available as URL, but I will rename it series res. vs
tank res. gain to show what has been already stated.

Sincerely HDN
http://www.egroups-dot-com/group/teslafy



=====
Binary Resonant System  http://members3.boardhost-dot-com/teslafy/

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