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Re: [TCML] Terry filters
I have bought into the idea that chokes are not the answer for protecting 
nst's based on the evidence that you (Gary) and others on the list have 
produced. I don't agree, however, with your claim that a series inductor 
does nothing to from a low pass filter. In my old car stereo days, I used 
chokes on woofers to keep the high frequencies out of the speaker. 
Admittedly, when I listened to the woofer with and without a choke, a choke 
alone didn't just drop the high frequency right out of the sound that the 
speaker was fed.  According to my old Fosgate manuals, a choke on it's own 
would attenuate the signal at 6 db per octave. The bigger the choke, the 
lower the frequency the attenuation would begin. This means that if the 
speaker were 8 ohms, and your choke was stated to be 100hz for a 8 ohm 
woofer, it simply meant that it would present more than 8 ohms to the 
amplifier at 100 hz and up, and increase the impedance by 2x's (I think) 
with each doubling of frequency.  If you wanted 12db per octave, a capacitor 
of a specific value would be placed on the downstream side of the choke, to 
the negative feed of the speaker. If one wanted 18db per octave, a second 
choke would be placed in series, down stream of the first choke.
When I thought that chokes were necessary for Tesla coil building, a ferrite 
core car stereo woofer choke was exactly what I used on the high voltage 
side of the transformer! Naturally, to find a capacitor so large and of 
sufficient voltage to use the car stereo formula was impractical, so I just 
used the choke mounted directly on the hv bushing.
   Your chokes looked like a good design and your testing is convincing 
that chokes are not helpful. Unwanted capacitance I believe is the culprit 
in making chokes bad. I have found the effects of unwanted capacitance 
working in A/V. As our video signals are becoming higher and higher, cables 
have to become shorter. That tiny bit of capacitance in coax can kill the 
signal when the cables are too long!
Dave Goodfellow
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lau, Gary" <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx>
To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:51 AM
Subject: RE: [TCML] Terry filters
I'm sorry Dr, but anecdotal evidence like this is going to set us back to 
using leeches and bloodletting.
No one has ever performed a study on failure rates, ON EQUIVALENT HARDWARE, 
comparing R-C filters and L or L-R filter networks.  But there is 
overwhelming theoretical and simulation-based evidence that show that R-C 
filters are the superior topology.
Adding just a series inductor with or without a series resistor does nothing 
to form a low pass filter.  You need a capacitor; this is elementary circuit 
analysis.  On what basis do you conclude that this would "catch especially 
the very nasty high freq transients "?
I maintain that the use of chokes in NST/PT/pig protection networks should 
be abandoned.
Regards, Gary Lau
MA, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:21 PM
To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TCML] Terry filters
If you are really on a tight budget using used NSTs and can't afford a
full Terry filter, there is an alternative.
For almost 20 years I used a simple pair of air core RF choke made of 2"
ID x 12 inch long PVC tube.  I wound it for 10 inches with #26 AWG PVC
covered wire.  It seemed to catch especially the very nasty high freq
transients that could break down the NSTs HV coils as these transients can
form a "spider-web" like effect, essentially "crawling" over the windings
until they connect and then the main power flows causes failure.
Using a pair of these simple air core chokes I had only one failure in
nearly 30 years.  Some of these coils with NSTs and these simple chokes
are still in daily operation at museums for over 15 years.
The failure I had was also a used NST so that could have entered into the
factor --- the xmfr might have been ready for a failure from prior neon
service.
Food for thought anyway.
Dr. Resonance
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