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RE: 180 BPS synch, Hatachi L100 drive (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:50:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yurtle Turtle <yurtle_t@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: 180 BPS synch, Hatachi L100 drive (fwd)

I've run my 60 Hz motor at up to 150 Hz with no
problems. I can do up to 500 Hz!

I don't use any filtering, as most vfd's don't
recommend it, but would like to, if someone could
recommend how.

Adam

--- Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:55:19 -0700
> From: Jim Mora <jmora@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: 'Tesla list' <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: 180 BPS synch, Hatachi L100 drive (fwd)
> 
> Great,
> 
> I'm good to go then. The L100 can run 1 phase in, 3p
> out or 3p in, 3p out @
> 3hp for the model I have. I have a 3p, 2HP motor -
> rpm 1740 handy. I have 8
> electrodes on the disk. Hmm, 3000rpm=400bps. Can I
> safely run the motor
> faster a bit or would a faster rated motor be
> better?
> 
> Also are you using any filtering to protect the
> drive? I will be running @
> 5KVA with an 18" G10 rotor. I'm a newbie with VFD.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim Mora 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla@xxxxxxxxxx] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 6:58 AM
> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch, Hatachi L100 drive (fwd)
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:02:08 -0700
> From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch, Hatachi L100 drive (fwd)
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> I don't have any experience with that particular
> drive, but it sounds 
> like you have the right specs. Just get a motor
> rated for the HP of the 
> drive and hook it up. Test it out. It will likely
> run with the default 
> settings. Most drives have an output control voltage
> that you simply bus 
> back to an input terminal (Li1, Li2, Li3, etc..).
> You can usually set it 
> up to go in one direction connecting common to Li1
> or the opposite 
> direction (Li2). The remaining inputs (Li3, Li4,
> etc..) are usually just 
> specific speed inputs. You might connect common V+
> to Li1 and Li3 to run 
> in a specific direction at a specific speed. Inside
> the drive, you can 
> set Li3 to whatever speed you want. This is the
> quick and simple way of 
> running drives. They can also be communicated with
> via comm links as 
> might be done is done in industrial applications,
> but none of that is 
> necessary for spark gaps. Simple onboard settings
> will suffice. Just 
> read up on the manual on how to connect it and
> change it's parameters.
> 
> Take care,
> Bart
> 
> Tesla list wrote:
> 
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:51:22 -0700
> >From: Jim Mora <jmora@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: 'Tesla list' <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: RE: 180 BPS synch, Hatachi L100 drive
> >
> >Hmm, I haven't been following this thread, but I
> have a New Hitachi L100 on
> >my table but haven't got around yet to playing with
> it. Three phase motor
> >control from single phase 240v. Anyone have
> experience with this drive?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Jim Mora
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla@xxxxxxxxxx] 
> >Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:11 PM
> >To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
> >
> >
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:51:50 -0700
> >From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
> >
> >Yes, Phil, your right, it's 4-20mA. Thanks for the
> correction. I'm 
> >probably going to replace my Altivar 31 with a
> brand new ABB 3 HP drive 
> >I have sitting on my desk. Something I've been
> wanting to play with but 
> >just haven't got around to it.
> >
> >Take care,
> >Bart
> >
> >Tesla list wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 16:25:37 EDT
> >>From: FIFTYGUY@xxxxxxx
> >>To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: Re: 180 BPS synch? (fwd)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>In a message dated 7/14/07 9:05:52 A.M. Eastern
> Daylight Time,  
> >>tesla@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>The VFD itself is wired up to accept a 0 to 10mA
> signal that  controls 
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>the speed from 0 to 500 Hz.
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>   Shouldn't that be 4-20mA? One of the advantages
>  of a 4-20mA current
> >>    
> >>
> >loop 
> >  
> >
> >>signal is to avoid the noise of zero mA meaning 
> "zero signal". Hence the 
> >>minimum 4 mA...
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>I use an Altivar 31 VFD by Telemecanique.
> Telemecanique was once  known 
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>as "not the greatest of VFDs". That has changed
> in the past 4  years. The
> 
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>company actually was revamped. Nowadays, their
> drives are probably  the 
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>easiest to use and are now very reliable.
> Especially the Altivar 31  
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>series (versus the old Altivar 28 which was pure
> Telemecanique of  old).
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>
> >>Now that I've finished laughing so hard that I 
> had to pick myself up the 
> >>floor, I find myself wondering if you're actually 
> *serious*! 
> >>   I finished replacing the fourth ATV 31 drive 
> (from 2kW to 15kW) in a 
> >>brand new installation. Four drives in less than a
>  year of operation? I 
> >>cannibalized all of them. Most failed due to the
> "brick"  having bad
> >>    
> >>
> >connections. They 
> >  
> >
> >>went to a design that clamps down, so  the brick
> leads spring against pads
> >>    
> >>
> >on 
> >  
> >
> >>the circuit board, instead of  bolting or
> soldering to connections to it.
> >>    
> >>
> >One 
> >  
> >
> >>had a blown input rectifier,  which when replaced
> allowed control and
> >>    
> >>
> >display 
> >  
> >
> >>power but the output was still  dead as a doornail
> (even though the
> display
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >  
> >
> >>told me it was running  OK).
> >>   "Easiest to use"? Are you kidding??? Where do I
>  start... no local
> >>    
> >>
> >keypad 
> >  
> >
> >>jog function, no local/remote key on keypad, no 
> easy-to-replace keypad 
> >>(without disassembling the drive), no parameter
> storage  in keypad, no
> >>    
> >>
> >built-in 
> >  
> >
> >>line or load reactors, no provision for external 
> powering/switching of
> >>    
> >>
> >cooling 
> >  
> >
> >>fan, no built-in macros for common user 
> applications, a *very* primitive
> >>    
> >>
> >LED 
> >  
> >
> >>display (three letter codes derived from 
> 7-segment LED's, and the codes
> >>    
> >>
> >are in 
> >  
> >
> >>French/IEC abbreviations), no standard  provision
> for encoder interface, 
> >>included hard copy manual is minimal.
> >>   IMHO the only thing I like about Telemecanique 
> is their cable safety 
> >>switches (which they pioneered). If it's Tele, you
> name  it, I've worked
> >>    
> >>
> >with it. 
> >  
> >
> >>I tried to get an Alitvar 41 (IIRC) which was a
> very  cost-effective
> drive.
> >>    
> >>
> >I 
> >  
> >
> >>needed a 20kW for a fan application, and they 
> don't make 31's bigger than
> 
> >>15kW. We got a great price break from our vendor 
> on Tele crap, and I
> >>    
> >>
> >wanted to 
> >  
> >
> >>keep things standardized. But apparently  although
> they list that product
> >>    
> >>
> >on 
> >  
> >
> >>the Tele website, they only offer it in  Europe.
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>when it comes to motor control, 3-phase is
> industry standard  and VFD's
> >>>      
> >>>
> >are 
> >  
> >
> >>>their industry standard control module.
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>   Depends very much on the industry! I've seen
> two  brand-new printing 
> >>presses built and installed at two different local
>  factories in the last
> >>    
> >>
> >two 
> >  
> >
> >>years that both had 40+ HP *DC* motors as the main
>  drive! I've worked on
> >>    
> >>
> >all 
> >  
> >
> >>brands and vintages of those things, and can say 
> with no reservation that
> >>    
> >>
> >a DC 
> >  
> >
> >>motor is a complete waste (and liability!) for 
> that application. But it
> >>    
> >>
> >seems 
> >  
> >
> >>that's all the "old" engineers will trust.  Shame,
> I've seen tiny AC
> motors
> >>    
> >>
> >run 
> >  
> >
> >>big presses, and spec'ed and installed a  big 60
> HP AC motor and C-H
> SV9000
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >  
> >
> >>drive on an old press. Both run  flawlessly...
> >>   Some places still use a lot of single phase 
> motors for smaller loads
> >>    
> >>
> >and 
> >  
> >
> >>machine automation. Steppers are popular for 
> slow-speed positioners. On
> >>    
> >>
> >that 
> >  
> >
> >>note, I've seen plenty of brand-new DC servos  on
> new equipment. 
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>In motor control, Allen Bradley is still top of
> line for  VFD's.
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>   Are you trying to kill me with laughter, Bart? 
> :)
> >>   Their new Powerflex line is interesting, but
> you  can keep your 1305's 
> >>and 1336's. Too many problems with those in too
> many  applications to list
> >>    
> >>
> >here.
> >  
> >
> >>   OTOH, A-B is the "Dark Side" of Rockwell 
> Automation. Reliance has
> >>    
> >>
> >always 
> >  
> >
> >>made very tough stuff. I've seen old Reliance 
> drives, of all types, 
> >>soldiering on long after they've become obsolete.
> They  still seem to make
> >>    
> >>
> >a very 
> >  
> >
> >>tough AC drive with a good reputation. I wish I've
>  had more than a
> passing
> >>    
> >>
> >chance 
> >  
> >
> >>to work with modern Reliance AC drives, so I 
> could confirm my good 
> >>impression.
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>But the others now are right there with them in
> capability. The  main 
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>difference is that industries are >tied into a
> particular breed by the
> >>    
> >>
> >code they 
> >  
> >
> >>write. It would be an expensive task 
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>to change over to something else. So, they stick
> with what they are  
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>familiar with. I do the same. I understand that
> situation  completely.
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>
> >>   True, and nothing can make or break you like 
> being tied to a
> >>    
> >>
> >particular 
> >  
> >
> >>brand by nothing more than a salesperson or 
> engineer's inconsiderate 
> >>preference (usually a kickback).   
> >>
> >> IMHO the Cutler-Hammer SV(X)9000 drives have
> given me the best  luck over
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >  
> >
> >>the long run, although the manual is a bit
> difficult in places.  Sumitomo 
> >>drives were built like a battleship. ABB makes a
> very nice and  affordable
> >>    
> >>
> >AC 
> >  
> >
> >>drive, but their DC drives are a nightmare. Baldor
> drives are very
> >>    
> >>
> >user-friendly, 
> >  
> >
> >>but always seem to have issues with control power
> supplies.  Eurotherm
> >>    
> >>
> >drives 
> >  
> >
> >>are *way* over-engineered for programming options
> (difficult to
> >>    
> >>
> >commission), 
> >  
> >
> >>and not robust enough. Hitachi and Mitsubishi AC
> drives are about  the 
> >>cheapest I've found, and seem to do fine. 
> >>
> >>-Phil LaBudde
> >>Center for the Advanced Study of Ballistic 
> Improbabilities
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>************************************** Get a sneak
> peak of the all-new AOL
> >>    
> >>
> >at 
> >  
> >
> >>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



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