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RE: [TCML] Primary Grounding was [Control Cabinet ...]
Yes, that occurred to me. I don't really know. Could be that an initial over-volt condition initiates a progressive breakdown that doesn't kill the original big bang, but fails shortly thereafter? It may be a shaky theory, but seemed better than violating COE. Mainly I was hoping to stimulate discussion and perhaps come up with a better theory.
And sorry, I didn't mean to derail the original topic of grounding 1 vs. 2 ears. Another interesting and important topic, for sure!
Regards, Gary Lau
MA, USA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Yurtle Turtle
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:34 PM
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [TCML] Primary Grounding was [Control Cabinet ...]
>
> If his cap were charged to a greater voltage than usual, resulting in a larger than
> usual bang, resulting in a longer than usual secondary streamer, wouldn't that then
> save the cap from over-voltage? I mean, if a cap survives a "charge cycle" long
> enough to "bang", then the voltage would only go down at that point, right? If a cap
> dies, wouldn't it simply discharge internally, rather than ending by discharging all its
> energy in a final bang? I guess it may depend on whether it really died due to over-
> voltage. Does it make sense that it would go out in a bang, or a whimper?
>
> Adam
>
>
> --- On Wed, 12/17/08, Lau, Gary <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > From: Lau, Gary <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx>
> > Subject: RE: [TCML] Primary Grounding was [Control Cabinet ...]
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 10:22 AM
> > Hi Phillip,
> >
> > I don't doubt that you saw a primary strike just prior
> > to David's cap dying. But I think it's not always
> > easy to separate cause and effect.
> >
> > Conservation of energy will not allow the primary cap to be
> > recharged by a streamer-strike to a higher voltage than
> > before the gap fired. So I don't think that's what
> > killed the cap, although certainly possible that I missed
> > something.
> >
> > Instead, let me propose this. What if through RSG
> > misfiring or some other conspiracy of events, the cap was
> > able to charge to a higher-than-normal voltage. When the
> > gap did fire, it would be a bigger than normal bang,
> > resulting in a longer secondary streamer, and able to strike
> > something (primary) normally out of reach? The
> > over-charging of the cap as a result of gap miss-fire may be
> > the cause of the cap's demise, rather than the primary
> > strike.
> >
> > I don't know, just an arm-chair perspective.
> > Corrections, discussion, and alternate theories are very
> > welcome!
> >
> > Regards, Gary Lau
> > MA, USA
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> > > Behalf Of Phillip Slawinski
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:54 AM
> > > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [TCML] Primary Grounding was [Control
> > Cabinet ...]
> > >
> > > I was there when David fried his Hipotronics cap. I
> > know for a fact that I
> > > saw a streamer hit the primary right before the cap
> > went short.
> > >
> > > We also tried running my 6" coil on his Green
> > Monster control panel. It was
> > > running very well, and fortunately the sucker gap was
> > not overheating. Of
> > > course it was just above freezing outside, so this is
> > somewhat
> > > unsurprising. What was surprising was then number of
> > primary strikes my
> > > coil was taking. I've never had a problem with
> > primary strikes until I ran
> > > it with a grounded primary. I do not run my coil with
> > the strike rail
> > > grounded, I just leave it floating because the primary
> > will arc to it. I
> > > ran my 6" coil on Cameron Prince's pole pig
> > this summer and did not have a
> > > single primary strike. This was not because the
> > streamers could not reach
> > > the primary either. Cameron's pig has two ears,
> > and neither ear is
> > > grounded.
> > >
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pslawinski I've got
> > some pictures of the run
> > > at David's home, and on the second page there is a
> > video of the run at
> > > Cameron's home.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 21:39, David Rieben
> > <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Bart, Jim,
> > > >
> > > > If I'm not mistaken, I was the one who
> > originally turned you on
> > > > to the grounding one of the ears of the pig to
> > allow a single HV
> > > > transmission line from the pig to the primary
> > circuit ;^) However,
> > > > after some recent discussion with one or two
> > members, I am be-
> > > > ginning to wonder if this is the best
> > configuration in light of suppres-
> > > > sing primary coil strikes. I have been running my
> > Green Monster in
> > > > this fashion but have noticed rather excessive
> > primary strikes. As a
> > > > matter of fact, I smoked my beloved Hipotronics
> > pulse cap during
> > > > a recent firing of the beast for a mini-Teslathon
> > ;^( (3 of us). I'm
> > > > not sure but it was mentioned that a large
> > primary strike was seen
> > > > right before the Hipotronics caps gave up the
> > ghost. Of course I
> > > > have an RF grounded strike shield ring and I was
> > figuring that this
> > > > may be the main culprit for primary bound
> > strikes. Do you guys think
> > > > that leaving the primary coil
> > "floating" with not connection to RF
> > > > (mains ground) will suppress primary bound
> > strikes from the
> > > > topload or is this a sure recipe for distruction
> > of the primary circuit
> > > > components? Of course, I realize that one of the
> > best methods of
> > > > suppressing primary strikes is to add an extra
> > corona shield toroid
> > > > underneath the main topload. I have not done this
> > in my design main-
> > > > ly due to the shear size of my main topload
> > (12x56") in comparison
> > > > to the outer diameter of my primary spiral (about
> > 40"). It seems to
> > > > me though that the RF grounded strike ring (which
> > is about the same
> > > > diameter as the outermost primary turn -
> > ~40", and sits on a horizon-
> > > > tal plane about 4" above the primary
> > coil's plane, is the main culprit
> > > > at drawing the strikes toward the primary coil,
> > regardless of whether
> > > > the primary coil is "floating" or
> > grounded. What do you think?
> > > >
> > > > Fortunately, I had a spare Plastic Capacitors BNZ
> > custom made pulse
> > > > cap that I got as a spare from list member Bill
> > Limeaux (Gomez
> > > > Addams), that was of the same capacitance as the
> > now defunct Hipo-
> > > > tronics cap (.1 uFd) that I was able to swap out
> > to get the Monster
> > > > breathing fire again ;^)
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, sorry for the rather lengthy post but I
> > am really curious
> > > > about this issue and thank you all in advance for
> > your responses.
> > > >
> > > > David Rieben
> > > >
> > > > PS - I, too, have been tying the external tank of
> > my pig to RF
> > > > ground via the transmission line from the tank
> > circuit assembly
> > > > and if I disconnect the primary coil from the RF
> > ground, then
> > > > the pig's external tank will also be floating
> > (that just doesn't
> > > > sound good to me!)
> > > >
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>
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