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Re: [TCML] Finally Fired off Green Monster With New Caps.



Actually, I have never personally owned a nice scope and generator at the same time and have always tuned my coils by the old 'trial and error' process. I was usually able to do a little math and make a pretty good guess on the general ballpark of where I should be landing the primary tap, too.

David

----- Original Message ----- From: "phil" <pip@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2018 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TCML] Finally Fired off Green Monster With New Caps.


David,
As I've already had neighbour 'troubles' (wrecked coil) I can see why testing needs to kept to a minimum. Now there's a very high risk here of asking you 'to suck eggs', but no doubt you've tried pre-tuning the pri/sec with a scope and signal generator, but have you at the same time tried simulating streamer breakout to see its effect on the frequency drop? I've had good success on my coils by hanging thin wires from the toroid, both angled downwards to ground and with others going out horizontally (supported)

Phil


On 22/04/18 21:57, David Rieben wrote:
Phil,

Yea, I guess I did indeed commit a big 'no-no' by introduing more than one modification between runs of my coil. Shame on me! ;^)) Sometimes I just get bored and too impatient to wait until I can run her again to hold off on trying out new ideas. LOL.

I too was wondering about the different size caps being at least one factor for the beating. I will definitely try bypassing the resistive ballast next time I fire her off. I really highly doubt that my transformer/inductive ballast combo (that has already proven to be able to effortlessly process 240 volts at 100 amps!) has reached or surpassed its limit as far as to how large of a primary cap that it's able to fully charge in between the RSG electrode presentations. As I have already stated, fine tuning is really difficult for me to obtain in my current situation, having to run her outdoors while keeping the neighbors in mind and the fact that it takes several minutes for me to detach and reattach my primary tap. Even if I tune her in perfectly at low power, it may require somewhat more inductance to remain perfectly tuned in max power mode due to the extra loading of the streamers themselves.

Thanks for your insightful input and good to chat with you once again.

David


----- Original Message ----- From: "phil" <pip@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TCML] Finally Fired off Green Monster With New Caps.


David,
Nice to know you blew the moths out of the coil after a lay-up. I like you always tend to consider the wastage of putting resistance in the circuit rather than any benefits it may provide. 1.4kW is a lot of power to use, albeit not as dramatic as loosing the same 1.4kW on a NST coil, but none the less it highlights the importance of getting all losses to a minimum on big coils. I know some coilers consider it a good idea, but whether there is any benefit gained on adding resistance may depend on individual coils though. I hate to say it, and with all due respect to you, but I think you have committed the cardinal sin (along with 99% of us here who have done it at one time or another) and introduced two new factors that could affect things, (or even three if you consider the tuning may be out a bit), rather than just the one new factor (the caps). I just wonder if the "beating"is now down to the different C value you're now using; beating with the 60Hz mains (assuming it's not tuning related). We've had beating issues with my friends (Phil S) 10" piggy ARSG coil. As you say bypass the resistance for now and try the caps again, with a retune obviously, and then later maybe investigate whether the resistance is the cause of the 80% power issue. If it's sparked in the cabinet before, you could argue it can spark again with out harm, as long as your own safety is not affected and it's only occasional stress on the components.

Phil T

On 22/04/18 03:31, David Rieben wrote:
Some of you may remeber that I posted to the list an enquiry about the suitability of GE protective power caps (2X 0.25 uFd @ 13.8 kVAC in series) for Tesla coil operation, probably several months ago now. Bert Hickman thought that they would be quite suitable for Tesla coil duty, so that was good enough for me to give 'em a try. ;^) Well, between being back to working 40 hours a week and what seems like a life time of miserable, rainy weekends, I finally got a good day to try out those caps in my coil. Since I was replacing a 0.1 uFd Maxwell pulse cap (measured C about 0.114 uFd) with a measured C of 0.135 uFd, the coil obviously needed retuning for optimal operation. Since I am forced to run it outdoors in my driveway and the primary tap takes several minutes to loosen and reattach each time I change it, I was really only able to get a preliminary tuning down to the nearest whole turn, but still good enough for a test run.

I have also added 0.33 ohms worth of power resistors on one of the 'hot' 240 volt input legs, in combination with my inductive ballast on the other 'hot' input to my pole pig since the last time I fired it (probably at least a year by now!) I was trying to further 'smooth' the operation of the coil and further suppress any nasty kickbacks that may find their way back to my control panel or even my home's wiring.

Well, she did run fairly well, although it seemed like the added resistance throttled it back a bit. I noticed that even with the variac wheel turned up to around 80, the coil was still only drawing around 60 to 65 amps and it seemd that this was about the 'limit' - (it was drawing around 85 to 90 amps before without the added resistive ballasting and with the original 0.1 uFd Maxwell cap with the variac wheel at this same setting). Of course, even with only 0.33 ohms of added resistance, per the I2R law of joule heating, at 65 amps, thats still about 1400 watts of wasted energy that does NOT make it to those beautiful streamers!

Also, there seemed to be more 'wah-wah' beating of the output with my typical 300 to 350 bps roary gap setting - (noticed this more from observing my panel ammeter flactuate than from the actual tone of the sparks). Never-the-less, the output (and current draw) was definitely smoother and more steady with my original setup. I tried varying the speed of the rotary gap drive to see if I could get out of the beat fluctuations and find a 'sweet spot', but that didn't really seem to make much difference. So it seems that the added resistance gave me the opposite affect than the 'smoothing' that I was looking for.

Anywho, I will probably have an audience next time I run it and the first thing that I will likely do is try bypassing those power resistors. I have never really liked the idea of resistive ballasting wasting power in heat anyway, but I have read that a small resistive component in the ballasting does tend to smooth out and knock the tops off of some of the nasty kickback transients. I have still occasionally observed an occasional spark inside my control panel where you DON'T want to see sparks! That's the only reason that I was trying the resistive ballasting approach.

Those GE protective capacitors DO seem VERY robust, though and never even broke a sweat - can you say 27,600 volts AC rating with never more than 17 kVAC input??!! (plus they have internal bleeder resistors, making them safer than the typical pulse cap) so at least for now, I'm leaning more toward staying with them and working out the few preliminary kinks that I am having with their operation than changing back to my original 0.1 uFd, 75 kV Maxwell pulse cap.

Any comments or suggestions from any of the resident geniuses and/or other experienced pole piggy coilers?

David
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--
Regards Phil www.hvtesla.com
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_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla

--
Regards Phil www.hvtesla.com
_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla

_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
https://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla