RE: X-ray OOps! location of picture (fwd)

[<sroys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:18:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peter Lawrence <Peter.Lawrence@xxxxxxx>
To: hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: X-ray OOps! location of picture (fwd)

Carl,
     one other thing, you'll need to determine the polarity of each pair of
wires from each coil...,  IE analogous to connecting batteries: in series
connect positive to negative, in parallel connect positive to positive.

One of the many ways is to energize one primary, series a pair of the other
remaining primaries to get some non-zero voltage (if the primaries are 
connected backwards they sum will be zero), then label the the wires from
these two primaries in a "positive to negative" way (if you get my drift...),
then repeat until you've got all four primaries labeled.  Then repeat for
the four secondaries...

good luck,
-Pete.




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>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:59:07 -0500
>From: Carl Litton <Carl_Litton@xxxxxxxxxx>
>To: High Voltage list <hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: RE: X-ray OOps! location of picture (fwd)
>
>Thank you, and yes we will need ballast even though we will not be
>running it wide open (132 amp x 250 VAC =  33,000 VA!!!) Holy Cow!   
>
>
>Carl Litton
>Hilton Hotels Corporation
>901-374-5747
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: High Voltage list [mailto:hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx] 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:38 AM
>To: hvlist
>Subject: Re: X-ray OOps! location of picture (fwd)
>
>Original poster: <sroys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:33:36 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Peter Lawrence <Peter.Lawrence@xxxxxxx>
>To: hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: X-ray OOps! location of picture (fwd)
>
>
>wow, nice piece of iron!
>
>hmmm, number one concern is how to hook up the primaries so that they
>have
>enough inductance to keep the input current down when the secondary is
>open
>circuit.  Try connecting all primaries in parallel and measuring the
>primary
>current, then if that is low you might(?) try 2 x 2 series-parallel,
>definately don't try all four primaries in parallel unless you know for
>sure either 1) it has enough inductance, or 2) you have a very reliable
>circuit breaker that you're sure will blow before you burn out your
>coils, 
>or 3) you put a current limiting ballast in your primary circuit.
>
>Basically, if you know how to connect a stack of MOTs, you should be
>able
>to figure this out...
>
>-Pete Lawrence, just my $0.02 worth...
>
>
>
>
>>
>>I suppose the location of the picture would help:
>>
>>http://www.dawntreader.net/xray/xray1.jpg
>> 
>>Carl Litton
>>Hilton Hotels Corporation
>>901-374-5747
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: High Voltage list [mailto:hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx] 
>>Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 3:53 PM
>>To: hvlist
>>Subject: RE: X-ray Power Supplies (fwd)
>>
>>Original poster: <sroys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:49:54 -0500
>>From: Carl Litton <Carl_Litton@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: High Voltage list <hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>Subject: RE: X-ray Power Supplies (fwd)
>>
>>Thank you.  Sounds very serious  - and I suppose justifiably as
>>polychlorinated biphenyls are nasty cumulative metabolic poisons and
>>cancer producers.
>>
>>The good news is that I used Doc. R's test and it looks like I'm clear
>>on this one.  Now if I can just figure this device out and get it back
>>in the oil before it absorbs any moisture!
>>
>>The half wave rectified DC pulse present at the output of the
>>secondary(ies) is almost twice the AC reading at the same point yet I
>>can find no capacitors for a doubler action to be taking place.  I have
>>never seen a capacitor without a container but I have considered that
>>the 2 wound masses that I first thought to be a second small xfmr could
>>be acting as capacitors since their appearance is of alternating layers
>>of flat metal (or plastic) and cloth.
>>
>>I doubt the DC would be of much use to power the primary of the TC we
>>are building as sine wave is necessary for xfmr action.  The main
>>transformer also appears to be split into 4 distinct coils with primary
>>windings deep and secondary windings superficial.  (4) wires going in
>>from the prim inputs  and (4)  20kV rated wires coming out of the
>>secondaries going to the rectifier arrays.  
>>
>>In the absence of a capacitor, we propose to sever the connections
>>before the rectifier and run suitable HV rated wire directly to the
>>output terminals.  We also propose to operate this beast on a specially
>>designed 100 Amp 120V (versus the rated 220) circuit to cut output
>>roughly in half to around </= 60kV and 20,000VA.
>>
>>
>>Carl Litton
>>Hilton Hotels Corporation
>>901-374-5747
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: High Voltage list [mailto:hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx] 
>>Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:54 PM
>>To: hvlist
>>Subject: RE: X-ray Power Supplies (fwd)
>>
>>Original poster: <sroys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:06:04 -0700
>>From: BrianB <brianb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: 'High Voltage list' <hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>Subject: RE: X-ray Power Supplies (fwd)
>>
>>Let me add one thing to Dr. R's post.
>>
>>The EPA coming after you is not an urban legend. I personally know a
>>list member who had the EPA come after him (he wants to remain
>anonymous
>>for obvious reasons).
>>
>>What happened was the EPA decided that this list members recent E-Bay
>>purchase (which was in his possession) most likely contained PCB's and
>>they gave him 30-days to prove it or be fined $10,000.00 They also said
>>if he failed to respond they would come to the location where the item
>>was received (his house) and inspect and catalog everything at his
>cost.
>>
>>
>>Final outcome - This turned into a paperwork and legal nightmare not to
>>mention a financial drain. Ultimately the item (which was never proven
>>to have PCB's) was sent to a disposal site and he spent a lot of money
>>in addition to the hefty disposal fees.
>>
>>Brian B.
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: High Voltage list [mailto:hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx] 
>>Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:37 PM
>>To: hvlist
>>Subject: Re: X-ray Power Supplies (fwd)
>>
>>Original poster: <sroys@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:15:48 -0500
>>From: Dr. Resonance <resonance@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: High Voltage list <hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>Subject: Re: X-ray Power Supplies (fwd)
>>
>>
>>
>>Caution:
>>
>>Many of these old X-ray sets contain xmfr oil with PCBs.  That's why
>>they
>>are "given away".  The oil disposal would cost approx $1,500 plus
>>shipping
>>to a disposal plant which uses a very high temp incinerator.
>>
>>If the EPA finds out you have it, and it does contain PCB, they will
>>order
>>you to dispose of the oil or else pay a $10K fine if they have to come
>>and
>>get it.  Either way, if it's PCB, you lose.
>>
>>Dr. Resonance
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:42:01 EDT
>>> From: Mddeming@xxxxxxx
>>> To: hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: X-ray Power Supplies (fwd)
>>>
>>> In a message dated 9/23/04 6:16:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:48:20 -0500
>>> From: Carl Litton <Carl_Litton@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: High Voltage list <hvlist@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: X-ray Power Supplies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We just acquired a donation today of what I am told by the owner of
>>the
>>> x-ray repair shop is the power supply to an old 'Frankenstein' era
>>x-ray
>>> machine containing a large transformer and a capacitor that
>reportedly
>>> hold a very large charge for a couple of days -- all covered in oil.
>>>
>>> It is an olive drab steel box 2' cubic weighing a little less than
>>> 200lbs. with 2 large holes in the top looking down into some clear
>oil
>>> and submerged metal.  Large cables come out of the top.  220 VAC
>input
>>> to primary and spec. plate reads that secondary output is 120 KVP
>>> (assuming that to be Kilovolts Peak) at a current of 330 m.a.
>>>
>>> Now, I need to know about such devices as this is seriously beyond my
>>> little (relatively) 39 lb. 15 kV NST's  and appears that it could
>>> actually be dangerous ;).
>>>
>>> Anyone with experience on hi-powered x-ray transformers  - would you
>>> please direct us to any articles or information on care and feeding
>of
>>> such a device and caveats about any salient differences one
>encounters
>>> with this type of power supply compared to the usual MOTs, NSTs,
>>> ignition coils, etc.
>>>
>>> [I'm sure more folks will add their thoughts, but XRay transformers
>>are DC
>>> devices and will kill you very quickly.  100kVDC is nothing to be
>>> careless with - your first mistake could very well be your last.  As
>>> Richard hull would suggest, make sure you always have a friend there
>>with
>>> a long 2x4 to push your body off the terminals and put the fires out
>>(with
>>> a non-H2O based fire extinguisher!)  SRR]
>>>
>>> Carl Litton
>>> Hilton Hotels Corporation
>>> 901
>>> Hi Carl,
>>>     If your interest is in really understanding how these monsters
>>worked
>>and
>>> were used, I would recommend "The Fundamentals of X-Ray and Radium
>>Physics,
>>> 6th ed." by J. Selman, M.D. publ. by Charles C.Thomas, Springfield,
>>IL,
>>1980. .
>>> Has a good practical section on HV power supplies. Used copies sell
>>for
>>about
>>> $5-$7 on Alibris. Older copies (4th ed.1967)discuss 120kV vacuum tube
>>> rectifiers, mechanical rectification etc.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Matt D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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