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Re: [TCML] quench times again



Hi Bart,


Hi Chris,

Chris Swinson wrote:
Hi all,

I was looking at http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/wavefrms.html real waveforms...

looking at the discharge waveforms. The spark has arced to ground and killed all the voltage even before it gets to the first notch. So if the coil arcs on the first ring up cycle then all the RSG times and notches are meaningless really ?
Kind of yes. An arc to ground allowed all the energy to transfer in the first 1/2 cycle (a few microseconds). It's all over but the shouting!
It looks like the voltage just ramps up to maximum then arcs to ground, that's it..
Yes, but the energy transfer is still performing it's function until all the energy in the cap is dumped.
though looking at the previous waveforms, Richie has the 3rd notch as the quench time. There is no spark output so the energy is just trapped until (for what ever reason) the spark gap turns off at the 3rd notch.
No, there is output. It's in the form of a moderate lower power corona off the toroid and these are in single shot mode to specifically demonstrate quenching. The gap continued conducting until the energy had been used up in the corona, secondary, and spark gap. Also realize these are "secondary" waveforms, so the peaks indicate the primary side notches. But yes, 3rd notch quenching in this case. No different than sparking into the air in your garage.
To me it looks like the notches are not important if the spark has output long before anyways....
I would not draw that conclusion. There was corona during the event. The notches are an indication of energy consumed over time. There will be no repeatability until enough energy has been consumed and allows the gap to stop conducting. The longer the energy is stored in the system, the greater the losses will be from bang to bang due to gap losses, secondary losses, and spark output drain. Less transfer losses means more energy in spark output. Sparks to objects will drain the system and allow 1st notch quenching as the output then has a low impedance path and will suck up all the energy stored in the secondary and topload.

Take care,
Bart



looks like a few things then things then.......

all the tank energy gets used up very fast by a large spark to ground.. case over...

or

low spark output (maybe corona) drains the system slowly and eventually energy drops low enough for the gap to quench..case over..

or

What happens *if* the spark gap quenches at the first notch (no secodnary breakout at this point). The tank energy has to be trapped in the secondary at that point... the spark gap is off.. so whats the next step ?

I guess it will just break out into a spark as the energy just has nowhere else left to go ?

Or it the toroid is to big and prevents breakout, the energy gets trapped into RF waves... OR, if the RSG contacts are still aligned the energy will all flow back into the primary again....

Chris


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