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Re: [TCML] How about some Tesla Coiling?



 
Hi Jeff, Derek, All,
 
        You probably have seen the  TV ads that say "Our product may PROMOTE 
ABC health, or one in three people  may develop XYZ ISSUES". Just vague enough 
terminology that they can't be  accused of false statements. (I think the 
advertising industry may worship Tesla  as much as the pseudoscience folks do.) 
    It has long been obvious that Tesla had a knack for  "creative 
advertising" with a flair for sensationalism. As you have shown in the  correspondence 
below, there are many different, but equally valid ways of  defining average 
power. This is a term which I suspect, but can never prove  or disprove, Tesla 
deliberately did not define in his lectures, expressly  for dramatic effect.  
Since we can never know for sure whether he  measured joules per bang, or 
joules per hour, or something in between, we  can never know for sure if we have 
duplicated his claimed performance. Of  course, WE can agree on what WE mean by 
average power, and build and  evaluate coils of varying efficiencies using OUR 
standard definition, but  it cannot be related with any certainty to what 
Tesla actually did. We can  debate the terms until we end up in a morass of  
"scripture-interpretation" because of the deliberate vagueness of the  terminology 
as he chose to use the language in the late 1800's.
 
 
Matt D.
 
 

Where is the description of the power and spark  length in Tesla's 
own words?  Is it just possible [some will call this  blasphemy] that he 
may have exaggerated things just a bit?

Somewhere in Hotstreamer there are some pictures of my 
Quadrac-driven  spark coil using a pair of GMHEI ignition transformers in 
oil.  With 36  watts input [300 volts at  120 ma] it will give 5" sparks 
although  that's limited by the breakdown of the coils rather than the 
available spark  length.  Same coil driven from a 12 volt battery through 
a rather  inefficient 12 volt to 300 volt DC/DC converter takes 5 amps 
for the same  output.  I don't know whether a vibrator interrupt or 
excited coil can  do as well as a capacitor discharge  
one.................................

Ed


In a message dated 2/15/08 11:07:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

Jeff,  all

I suspect it really depends on the average power, I could charge up  some
large capacitors for a day at 5 W draw from the mains and then run a  large TC
from them giving very large arcs for a second or so.

Is  that classed as 5 W draw ?

DRSSTC's can easily be made to give 1 foot  arcs in short 8uS (or so) bursts
which look continuous, average power is  very small though

Even Classic Coils are not Continuous.

Maybe a  300Kv Marx fits this bill? Low power draw and 1 foot arcs. 

I suspect  the definition of this challenge needs to be more  specific..

Cheers
Derek http://www.extremeelectronics.co.uk  



-----Original Message-----
From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx  [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of David Rieben
Sent: 15  February 2008 14:21
To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TCML] How  about some Tesla Coiling?

Hi Jeff, all,

I wonder if the 30 watts  vs  6" sparks claim was based on actual wall plug
power draw or was  based on the total energy of primary C (in J or watt/sec)
discharge per  bang x BPS, or possibly even just the energy per bang? I, for
one, would be  highly suspect of a 6"
or 12" discharge claim from a mere 30 or 35 watts of  actual wall plug power
consumption. Am I being overly  pessimistic?

David


----- Original Message -----
From:  "Jeff Behary" <electrotherapy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:  <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:42  PM
Subject: [TCML] How about some Tesla  Coiling?



Chip,

I have a challange for everyone,  including me.  In the early days, when 
Tesla's coils were used for  everyday attainable things, like powering an 
X-Ray tube or lighting some  Geissler tubes, there are a bunch of table top 
models of machines like  this:
http://www.electrotherapymuseum.com/2006/MiscOscillators/index.htm

In  many texts, the smaller versions of these coils are described as making  a

6" spark with 5 - 30 watts of input power.  I think as a  collective group of

enthusiasts we should work on something similar -  something attainable, on 
topic, and still requiring a fair amount of skill  to accomplish.  I am 
willing to give space on my website for this  topic, coil photos, etc. - I 
think its a great opportunity to demonstrate  the efficiency of some of the 
modern circuits people are using to replace  the kicking coil design Tesla 
originally used.

(I can stick to the  old designs because its all I know.)

There is a point when all of the  "theory" arguments are "point-less" to a 
certain extent.  I have a  firm belief that until we can at least replicate 
the simple things Tesla  did, and get it right, we have no reason to expect 
we can accomplish  greater things, if that makes sense.

30 watts, 6 inch sparks.  To  Tesla it was child's play, as these little 
units seemed to litter the  tables of his labs in so many photos.  In the 
1897 lecture he  mentioned 12" with 35 watts of power, but maybe we can keep 
it simple to  start!

Jeff  Behary
_________________________________________________________________





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