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[TCML] Re: Polyurethane question:



Denatured alcohol could bite into the finish enough to dull it but you
should be safe to use mineral spirits or just good ol windex applied to the
rag first will do to. Take care, Jerry

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 7:21 AM, <tesla-request@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: HELP Oscilloscope coil tuning! BIG TOPIC! (Quarkster)
>   2. single ear transformer (Gates Larocque)
>   3. Re: Questions on grounding (bartb)
>   4. RE: single ear transformer (Christopher Karr)
>   5. Polyurethane Finish Questions (G Hunter)
>   6. Re: Questions on grounding (neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>   7. Re: single ear transformer (DC Cox)
>   8. Single ear piglet (Jim Mora)
>   9. RE: single ear transformer (Gates Larocque)
>  10. RE: single ear transformer (Gates Larocque)
>  11. Re: Polyurethane Finish Questions (BunnyKiller)
>  12. RE: single ear transformer (Quarkster)
>  13. Re: Questions on grounding (Dex Dexter)
>  14. Tesla Theory Power Point (Andrew Robinson)
>  15. Re: Single ear piglet (David Rieben)
>  16. Rotary Disc Material (Andrew Robinson)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Quarkster <quarkster@xxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:09:43 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [TCML] HELP Oscilloscope coil tuning! BIG TOPIC!
> Andrew -
>
> Charles Hobson's website provides very useful information on making Tesla
> coil measurements using an RF signal generator, oscilloscope, and frequency
> counter. Test setups include measuring primary and secondary resonant
> frequency, measuring primary/secondary coupling coefficient, and a means of
> viewing ring-up and ring-down characteristics.
>
> See: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/teslatutorial/MEASUREMENTSPR.htm
>
> For measurement of primary resonant frequency, add a 5 or 10K ohm resistor
> in series with the signal generator output to avoid possible overloading the
> generator.
>
> Regards,
> Herr Zapp
>
> --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Andrew Robinson <teslamad@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: Andrew Robinson <teslamad@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: [TCML] HELP Oscilloscope coil tuning! BIG TOPIC!
> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 5:52 PM
>
> Ok, so I just got back from the lab on campus. I was playing with the new
> digital scopes which I am going to be able to use to tune the new coil im
> building. Ya Universities! Heres the thing... I'm no stranger to coiling,
> but a newbie when it comes to using the scope. Can someone very carefully
> explain process to me... That is, correct what ever it is that im doing
> wrong.
> First off visit this link on my server to see a diagram I made real quick
> in
> paint to show you my setup.
>
> http://host.atomiklan.com/tesla/scope1.png            (Note: The frequency
> on
> the multimeter means nothing, just a visual aid)
>
> Ok so in this first image, im attempting to obtain the operating frequency
> of
> the secondary coil with toroid. Correct me if im wrong, but the toroid,
> secondary coil, air, and ground acts like a inductor capacitor circuit
> hence the
> frequency. The toroid forms a capacitor with earth using air as a
> dielectric. Is
> it possible to measure the frequency of the coil without the toroid? Im
> assuming
> yes... but pointless. Ok so to make replies simple and easy i'll number all
> my questions at the bottom of this page.
>
> Ok so back to the setup. Here are my understood steps to tune the coil...
>
> 1:    I should use the tesla geometry formulas for an inductor and topload
> to
> get the general area of the frequency of the secondary and toroid so I dont
> have
> to sweep the entire range of signal generator.
> 2:    Attach the signal generator to the bottom of secondary.
> 3:   Turn on below area of expected resonance.
> 4.   Hang oscilloscope probe near secondary coil.
> 5.   Raise frequency on signal generator and watch scope till the amplitude
> of
> sine wave maxes. At this point this is the frequency of coil. If you pass
> this
> by continuing to raise frequency, the sine wave amplitude should drop again
> till
> you reach another resonance point.
> 6.   Read the frequency where sine wave was max on the multimeter. (The
> multimeter was only in setup to get a digital readout of analog signal
> generator.)
>
> Ok, now that we have the secondary coils resonate frequency, its time for
> the
> primary tank circuit.
>
> Diagram: http://host.atomiklan.com/tesla/scope2.png             (Note: The
> frequency on the multimeter means nothing, just a visual aid)
>
> 1:   Disconnect the transformer and any filiters. You should only have the
> sparkgap, capacitor, and primary in the circuit.
> 2:   Bridge the sparkgap.
> 3:   Wire sparkgap, capacitor, and primary in series like normal.
> 4:   Attach oscilloscope probe to one end of primary and im assuming the
> ground
> of probe to tap point??? You should use a 10K ohm resistor on probe in this
> setup.
> 5:   Attach signal generator in same manner. One to end of primary, and
> other
> end to tap point. Then adjust the tap point on primary till you achieve the
> exact same frequency as above.
>
> Ok so my questions.
>
> 1. Can the secondary frequency be found without the toroid? Or is this
> pointless?
>
> 2. When getting secondary frequency, do i leave the alligator clip on probe
> attached to ground, or nothing?
>
> 3. What settings should I set on the signal generator as far as strength?
>
> 4. When I tried testing this setup today with a test coil, when i varied
> the
> frequency, the amplitude went up but never peaked at the "correct
> frequency". It would just keep increasing no matter what setting I set it
> on. What am I doing wrong here?
>
> 5: Am I missing something as far as using the scope correctly?
>
> 6. In regards to tuning the primary, is my setup correct as far as where to
> connect everything?
>
> 7. Do I use the 10K built into probe or do i need another resistor?
>
> 8. The scope probe goes on one end of primary with... where/what does the
> other
> connect to? Ground of probe to other end of primary? Other end of primary
> into
> another port on scope?
>
> Thanks everyone for all your help!
>
> Hopefully this will clear up any confusion using scopes not only for me but
> others as well.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew Robinson
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tesla mailing list
> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gates Larocque <gateslarocque@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:48:03 -0400
> Subject: [TCML] single ear transformer
>
> Anyone here have a schematic to wire my single ear HV transformer to my
> coil.
>
> it has 120VAC 60HZ input and ground to the case.
>
> I'm am jut used to having two high voltage outputs to short out for the
> spark gap.
>
> Gates
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Internet Explorer 8 helps keep your personal info safe.
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655581
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: bartb <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:14:57 -0700
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Questions on grounding
> Hi Joe,
>
> 12" to 16" is good improvement.
>
> Don't increase the spark gap. All this will do is increase the breakdown
> voltage and can kill the NST. A new gap would be good and the hyperbaric gap
> (linked the drawing in a post last week) is probably the easiest to build.
> It's basically a PVC T-fitting with copper pipes inserted into the ends
> along with a brass fitting on each end. The air is forced up through the
> center hole in the T-fitting. For your 12/30 NST, you can max out at about
> 27", so another 11" is about all you can expect out of the 12/30 on a
> perfect day. I think in order to achieve that or even come close, a new
> blown gap would be needed. That's up to you of course. If you do end up
> adding a 2nd 12/30 NST in parallel with the 1st NST, then you basically have
> a 12/60. Max length is about 38" with this setup. However, your cap would be
> very near NST resonance and it would be best to throw a little more
> capacitance into the gap if you think about doing that (about 0.018uF to
> .02uF is what you want with a 12/60).
>
> The toroid may actually be too big, not too small. Install a breakout point
> (anything you come up with will do). I have a 1 meter aluminum ruler that I
> use for a breakout point and I simply lay it on top of the toroid when I use
> it. This will allow the spark to breakout more consistently and it helps
> direct the spark to one side of the coil. Actually when your testing spark
> lengths against a ground wire or object, try using a breakout point as it
> gives a precise measurement and you will get far more strikes to the object.
> The breakout point can be a wire, a ruler, a rod, and some even go as far as
> to attach a 1/2" to 1" metallic sphere to the end of the rod. The rod should
> protrude out past the toroid edge by about 5 to 10 inches on your toroid
> size.
>
> I don't think you need to lower the toroid at all. If the bottom of the
> toroid is 2" above the secondary, then it should be fine where it is.
>
> Take care,
> Bart
>
> jocatch wrote:
>
>> Hello Bart,
>>
>> I rewound the primary so it is not up against the secondary form and now I
>> can draw 16" sparks, 4" more than before.
>> I moved the primary higher so it is even with the bottom of the secondary
>> but didn't see an improvement. I also don't think tuning the primary more
>> will help as I see about the same output if I tap at 13 as I do at 14 turns.
>> Below 13 and it drops off alot.
>>
>> So the remaining variables to play with are:
>>
>> 1. the spark gap - if I increase the gap, I start getting large discharges
>> somewhere around the nst. If I had some pictures of what you are describing
>> it may help me visualize what you are saying. If I am to build a new gap, it
>> needs to be simple to build.
>> 2. the toroid size - the 4" diameter might be too small as I get breakouts
>> all around the toroid when I am not drawing a spark
>> 3. the toroid height - right now the toroid is about 2" above the top
>> winding of the secondary, maybe I should lower it.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "bartb" <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TCML] Questions on grounding
>>
>>
>>  Hi Joe,
>>>
>>> Remember when I said (after the other replies) that it may or may "not"
>>> help? That was the reason I responded in the first place is because
>>> "grounding" is not about spark lengths, it's about component protection. For
>>> spark length increases I mentioned the gap as did others and also more power
>>> needed. These are still the two main adjustments you can make to your coil
>>> to gain spark length. The gap is always #1 on the list of things to do.
>>> Carriage bolts have been used by everyone at some point (including myself),
>>> but there is a time when you must simply build a smart gap that is smart for
>>> Tesla coil systems.
>>>
>>> When considering a static gap, it's important to understand "why" a tube
>>> is better than a solid stock of anything else. The tube has a great deal of
>>> surface area (both inside the tube and outside the tube). This area allows
>>> heat to be radiated away from the initial path of high current contact of
>>> the spark as well as the build up of heat throughout the tube. A bolt or
>>> even a cylindrical tube which is solid, only has the outer surface to
>>> dissipate heat. The thicker the solid stock, the slower it will rise to
>>> temp, but, even thick solid stock electrodes heat up rather quickly and then
>>> performance begins to diminish due to the poor ability to radiate heat away.
>>> Tubes however, have the ability to radiate heat away when air is blown
>>> through them and across them. Thin walled tubes are actually better for this
>>> as opposed to thick walled tubes. Consider a 1" diameter sphere made of
>>> copper. Heat it up to 300 degreesF. Then do the same with a 1mm sphere. The
>>> 1mm sphere will heat up to temp faster because it's mass is smaller. But, it
>>> will also cool faster. Thin walled tubes act the same way. They heat up
>>> quick but they also cool down quick, so they are easier to maintain a
>>> specific temperature without a wide variation. They are more responsive to
>>> air flow and this is a key aspect.
>>>
>>> Both hyperbaric and TCBOR cylinder spark gaps use tubes. Tubes do very
>>> well. Tubes on a flat slab are not wonderful simply due to how the air is
>>> forced across the tubes. Ideally, you want cool air from the outside to be
>>> drawn in across both the outer and inner surfaces equally for all the tubes
>>> (that's hard to do on a slab). The TCBOR gap allows this very feature if
>>> built correctly. The hyperbaric gap also pushes air inside and outside the
>>> tubes. The hyperbaric gap has the added advantage that there are only 2
>>> tubes. This is both a mechanical and electrical advantage.
>>>
>>> Although air might help your carriage bolts (barely), a new gap and
>>> doubling the power is what will help your coil perform to the potential it
>>> is capable of. You can certainly skip around this and look at other avenues,
>>> but none of those avenues will lead you to greater spark lengths.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Bart
>>>
>>>
>>> jocatch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello. I am somewhat disappointed at the moment. Tonight I got to fire
>>>> up the coil now that the secondary and nst are grounded to earth and I have
>>>> a boxer fan blowing on the gap. I am only getting 12" sparks to ground using
>>>> my 14 turn prin/1400 second with 12kv/30ma nst, .0125uf mmc and 4"x17"
>>>> toriod. The Q of the circuit must be pretty low as moving the tap from 14 to
>>>> 15 turns make almost no difference. Adjusting the gap wider apart makes a
>>>> little difference but going too wide and I start getting flash over
>>>> somewhere near the nst and some spark jumps from the pri to sec. As I said
>>>> before, the pri is too close to the sec form, almost flush up against it. If
>>>> I try to move the pri up (right now it is at least 1" below the secondary) I
>>>> get spark shorts between the two.
>>>>
>>>> So I plan to increase the pri diameter and then raise the pri coil and
>>>> see if that helps. I am still thinking about getting a blower fan for the
>>>> gap.
>>>>
>>>> Joe C.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "bartb" <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 10:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [TCML] Questions on grounding
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Joe,
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think your over-coupled, but it would be normal to start the
>>>>> primary turn 1.25" from the secondary outer diameter (due to the 12kV supply
>>>>> and your coil) , then raise the primary to 1.5" above the bottom secondary
>>>>> turn as measured from the center of the primary. This will put coupling at
>>>>> 0.13 for your particular coil. Looks to be about 13.9 turns on the tap if
>>>>> that is done.
>>>>>
>>>>> For coupling, well, don't ask for a calc. Use Javatc or other program
>>>>> for something like that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Bart
>>>>>
>>>>> jocatch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Christopher (and everyone else who responded),
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't had time yet to fire up the coil at night since I grounded
>>>>>> the secondary and nst case to earth ground. Will do tomorrow night. I also
>>>>>> relocated my spark gap so I can blow air on it. Right now I am still using
>>>>>> the cartridge bolts but I got a 120v 100 cfm boxer fan about 2" away blowing
>>>>>> air on it. If it improves the output, I'll look for a blower fan that really
>>>>>> cranks and see if that works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course I need to be more exact in my breakout measurements so I am
>>>>>> going to mount a grounded wire on a pole and set on a tripod so I can
>>>>>> accurate measure the spark length to gauge improvements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am also thinking I may be over coupled. The inside of the primary is
>>>>>> almost flush up against the secondary form. The primary is about 1" lower
>>>>>> than the bottom of the secondary coil. If I try to raise the primary so it
>>>>>> is even with the secondary winding, I get sparks. So I may rewind the
>>>>>> primary out another inch or two.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for everyone's input so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Karr" <
>>>>>> chriskarr4@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: "Tesla Pupman List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:50 PM
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [TCML] Questions on grounding
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Joe,
>>>>>> The reason that a fan on the spark gap helps improve output of a Tesla
>>>>>> coil is that it helps to extinguish the arc and blow out the ions. When the
>>>>>> ions are all gone, the gap takes a higher voltage to make it break down,
>>>>>> which means that there's more 'bang energy', resulting in more energy
>>>>>> transferred to the secondary coil and that means larger streamers on the
>>>>>> output.
>>>>>> Christopher
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  From: jocatch@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TCML] Questions on grounding
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:01:07 -0400
>>>>>>> CC:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello to everyone who has responded so far. Thank you!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today I went and got a 4' ground rod and banged it into the ground
>>>>>>> and ran a
>>>>>>> wire to the secondary coil and nst case. I used a 4' rod because my
>>>>>>> ground
>>>>>>> here has lots of rocks and I have never been able to go more than
>>>>>>> about 4'
>>>>>>> with ground rods. As you can see from my photos that the coil is on
>>>>>>> my rear
>>>>>>> deck, there is no concrete floor. The wire from the coil to the rod
>>>>>>> is less
>>>>>>> than 20' long. Tonight after dark I will power it up and see if it
>>>>>>> helped. I
>>>>>>> will also connect the ground wire to the end of a pole and see how
>>>>>>> long of a
>>>>>>> spark I can get.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding my spark gap, I always go for the easiest, simplest
>>>>>>> solution as I
>>>>>>> am not that mechanically inclined. I do have some 12v computer fans I
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> thinking about placing near the gap to see if it helps. But I wanted
>>>>>>> to try
>>>>>>> the grounding, tuning and adjusting the gap width before adding a
>>>>>>> fan.
>>>>>>> Besides, I have no place right now to add the fan on the base; I will
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to move the gap to somewhere where there is more room. Regarding a
>>>>>>> 'sucker'
>>>>>>> gap, I am not sure what that is, I will have to research that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lau, Gary" <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:36 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [TCML] Questions on grounding
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you say that "Right now, nothing is grounded to earth or
>>>>>>> electrical
>>>>>>> ground", this is REALLY bad!  The secondary base needs a ground
>>>>>>> connection.
>>>>>>> If there is not a good, direct ground connection, the RF current will
>>>>>>> travel
>>>>>>> through your hot & neutral wires and wreak havoc with household
>>>>>>> appliances.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with Bart's reply - that the secondary base is typically
>>>>>>> connected
>>>>>>> to the NST case, and that this case connection should go to a
>>>>>>> dedicated RF
>>>>>>> ground, not the mains ground.  For low powered coils, the mains
>>>>>>> ground is
>>>>>>> often used, but the definition of "low" is subjective.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding the sparks discharging all around the toroid, this may be
>>>>>>> due to
>>>>>>> having a ragged surface on the toroid, so smoothing it out may help.
>>>>>>> If the
>>>>>>> toroid is simply too small for the power level you're running at, no
>>>>>>> amount
>>>>>>> of surface prep is going to help, but yours appears to be reasonable
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> size.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking at your web site, I think the weak link in your coil is the 2
>>>>>>> carriage bolt spark gap.  It needs forced air flow directly through
>>>>>>> the arc
>>>>>>> (more than just a gentle breeze from a fan), and should be designed
>>>>>>> to arc
>>>>>>> not at just a single point as yours will.  I recommend using a sucker
>>>>>>> gap,
>>>>>>> as it's easy to build and works very well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards, Gary Lau
>>>>>>> MA, USA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of jocatch
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:35 AM
>>>>>>>> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Subject: [TCML] Questions on grounding
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello. I have built my first coil using standard parts and
>>>>>>>> dimensions and
>>>>>>>> have fired it
>>>>>>>> up and so far I am producing sparks but only about 12" long. I am
>>>>>>>> using a
>>>>>>>> 12KV nst
>>>>>>>> with .0125uf mmf, 13 turns of copper tubing as primary and 20" of
>>>>>>>> #28
>>>>>>>> magnet wire
>>>>>>>> on a 4" form with aluminum cloths dryer ducting for the toroid
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My questions concerning grounding. I have read alot about discharge
>>>>>>>> spark
>>>>>>>> length
>>>>>>>> but not much regarding how to measure it. Above I said 12" discharge
>>>>>>>> spark
>>>>>>>> length,
>>>>>>>> that was to a key ring held at the end of a boom stick handle.
>>>>>>>> Should the
>>>>>>>> metal
>>>>>>>> object that I am drawing the spark to be grounded? To earth ground?
>>>>>>>> Right
>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>> nothing is grounded to earth or electrical ground. The bottom side
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> secondary
>>>>>>>> coil is connected to the metal case of the nst. Should the secondary
>>>>>>>> coil
>>>>>>>> and nst be
>>>>>>>> grounded to earth ground?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lastly, the aluminum toroid is discharging all around its
>>>>>>>> circumference. I
>>>>>>>> know the
>>>>>>>> fewer discharge points on the top load, the bigger the discharge
>>>>>>>> length
>>>>>>>> will be. If I
>>>>>>>> tape the toroid with aluminum tape to produce a smoother surface,
>>>>>>>> will it
>>>>>>>> help?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a web page showing photos of my first tesla coil before I
>>>>>>>> recently
>>>>>>>> updated it
>>>>>>>> to copper tubing and new toriod. The web page shows the old primary
>>>>>>>> wire
>>>>>>>> coil and
>>>>>>>> old topload. I will post new pictures of the update soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.joecool.org/joe_s_tesla_coil.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for your help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> joe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Tesla mailing list
>>>>>>> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Tesla mailing list
>>>>>>> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you.
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>>>>>> Tesla mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Tesla mailing list
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>>>>>> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> Tesla mailing list
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>>>>> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
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>> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Christopher Karr <chriskarr4@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Pupman List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:16:26 -0700
> Subject: RE: [TCML] single ear transformer
>
> It would help to know the output to know if it's compatible. If it only has
> one output, which grounds to the case, then you tie the case to one side of
> the spark gap/capacitor, and the output terminal to the other side.
>
> > From: gateslarocque@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> > Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:48:03 -0400
> > CC:
> > Subject: [TCML] single ear transformer
> >
> >
> > Anyone here have a schematic to wire my single ear HV transformer to my
> coil.
> >
> > it has 120VAC 60HZ input and ground to the case.
> >
> > I'm am jut used to having two high voltage outputs to short out for the
> spark gap.
> >
> > Gates
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Internet Explorer 8 helps keep your personal info safe.
> >
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655581_______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
>
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>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: G Hunter <dogbrain_39560@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:10:05 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: [TCML] Polyurethane Finish Questions
>
> What's the safest way to clean a secondary coil coated with oil based
> polyurethane?  I have paint thinner and also denatured alcohol on-hand.
>  Should I buy turpentine or mineral spirits?  I don't want to ruin the
> glossy finish.  I just want to clean off dust, dirt, and fingerprints.
>
> I've also recently read that polyurethane oil finishes may contain metallic
> drying agents, including zinc. Metals in the varnish? Seriously? Why doesn't
> this ruin the dielectric qualities of the cured poly?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: neal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:18:51 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Questions on grounding
> Hi Joe,
> I've been following your coil situations, and just thought I'd chime in
> with a
> couple thoughts-
> It doesn't sound like you have a safety gap on your nst, and that's
> something
> you might want to really consider. It could save you from turning your nst
> into
> a door stopper. :)
> Re: your breakouts from all around the toroid; have you tried taping a nail
> or
> something similar to the toroid? When I say tape, I mean sticking outwards
> away
> from it. This would help concentrate your arcs to one spot. I think someone
> already suggested smoothing out the toroid and retaping with foil tape.
> This
> helps, but you'll still break out all around without a point attached. I
> sometimes use a smooth, stainless steel sphere on mine; sometimes with a
> breakout point attached, sometimes not. I guess it goes with whether I'm in
> the
> mood for quantity or length. Keep tweaking away, and keep us up to date on
> your
> progress,
>
> Neal.
>
>
> Quoting jocatch <jocatch@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> > Hello Bart,
> >
> > I rewound the primary so it is not up against the secondary form and now
> I
> > can draw 16" sparks, 4" more than before.
> > I moved the primary higher so it is even with the bottom of the secondary
> > but didn't see an improvement. I also don't think tuning the primary more
> > will help as I see about the same output if I tap at 13 as I do at 14
> turns.
> > Below 13 and it drops off alot.
> >
> > So the remaining variables to play with are:
> >
> > 1. the spark gap - if I increase the gap, I start getting large
> discharges
> > somewhere around the nst. If I had some pictures of what you are
> describing
> > it may help me visualize what you are saying. If I am to build a new gap,
> it
> > needs to be simple to build.
> > 2. the toroid size - the 4" diameter might be too small as I get
> breakouts
> > all around the toroid when I am not drawing a spark
> > 3. the toroid height - right now the toroid is about 2" above the top
> > winding of the secondary, maybe I should lower it.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bartb" <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Questions on grounding
> >
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: DC Cox <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:47:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [TCML] single ear transformer
> single HV wire to spark gap.
>
> other side, ground case of transformer, to opposite side of spark gap.
>
> Be sure to put a safety filter between the HV transformer output and the
> spark gap or else transients wire fire back into the transformer and
> could damage it.
>
> Dr. Resonance
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Gates Larocque
> <gateslarocque@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> >
> > Anyone here have a schematic to wire my single ear HV transformer to my
> > coil.
> >
> > it has 120VAC 60HZ input and ground to the case.
> >
> > I'm am jut used to having two high voltage outputs to short out for the
> > spark gap.
> >
> > Gates
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Internet Explorer 8 helps keep your personal info safe.
> >
> >
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655581_______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Jim Mora" <wavetuner@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:54:13 -0700
> Subject: [TCML] Single ear piglet
> Hi Gates,
>
>
>
> Dr, Resonance does this on all his coils this way. I just set one up to his
> specs and many list member ground one horn in a dual horn. I'll let Dr.
> Resonance advise on this. Generally the inner turn of the primary is
> grounded to the coils RF ground. You need a return path so the pig may be
> at
> mains ground too, something I don't like much. Filter the nasties!.
>
>
>
> Jim Mora
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gates Larocque <gateslarocque@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:40:51 -0400
> Subject: RE: [TCML] single ear transformer
>
> The output is rated at 30KV the case ground is just a regular house green
> ground for the case
>
> > From: chriskarr4@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: [TCML] single ear transformer
> > Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:16:26 -0700
> > CC:
> >
> >
> > It would help to know the output to know if it's compatible. If it only
> has one output, which grounds to the case, then you tie the case to one side
> of the spark gap/capacitor, and the output terminal to the other side.
> >
> > > From: gateslarocque@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> > > Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:48:03 -0400
> > > CC:
> > > Subject: [TCML] single ear transformer
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyone here have a schematic to wire my single ear HV transformer to my
> coil.
> > >
> > > it has 120VAC 60HZ input and ground to the case.
> > >
> > > I'm am jut used to having two high voltage outputs to short out for the
> spark gap.
> > >
> > > Gates
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Internet Explorer 8 helps keep your personal info safe.
> > >
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655581_______________________________________________
> > > Tesla mailing list
> > > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
> >
> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009_______________________________________________
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> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Internet Explorer 8 helps keep your personal info safe.
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>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gates Larocque <gateslarocque@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:43:27 -0400
> Subject: RE: [TCML] single ear transformer
>
> Thanks DR can you send me a shematic of the filter and hookup diagram
> please.
>
> Gates
>
> > Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:47:15 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] single ear transformer
> > From: resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> > CC:
> >
> > single HV wire to spark gap.
> >
> > other side, ground case of transformer, to opposite side of spark gap.
> >
> > Be sure to put a safety filter between the HV transformer output and the
> > spark gap or else transients wire fire back into the transformer and
> > could damage it.
> >
> > Dr. Resonance
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Gates Larocque
> > <gateslarocque@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Anyone here have a schematic to wire my single ear HV transformer to my
> > > coil.
> > >
> > > it has 120VAC 60HZ input and ground to the case.
> > >
> > > I'm am jut used to having two high voltage outputs to short out for the
> > > spark gap.
> > >
> > > Gates
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Internet Explorer 8 helps keep your personal info safe.
> > >
> > >
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655581_______________________________________________
> > > Tesla mailing list
> > > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live™ Messenger.
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9656621
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: BunnyKiller <bunnikillr@xxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:30:49 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Polyurethane Finish Questions
> Hey Greg...
>
> for cleaning purposes, stick with a soft cloth and a mild soap. any type of
> "solvent based" fluid will eventually dry out the finish and create a dull
> sheen, or worse, remove the coating..
>
> its really not the dielectric quality( i consider dielectric factor more
> apt to capacitor usage)  of the coating you need but more the insulative
> factor, protective layer, and visual "prettyness"...  if metallic particles
> are infused in the coating, it may increase the potental of secondary
> arcing...
>
> Scot D
>
>
> G Hunter wrote:
>
>  What's the safest way to clean a secondary coil coated with oil based
>> polyurethane?  I have paint thinner and also denatured alcohol on-hand.
>>  Should I buy turpentine or mineral spirits?  I don't want to ruin the
>> glossy finish.  I just want to clean off dust, dirt, and fingerprints.
>>
>> I've also recently read that polyurethane oil finishes may contain
>> metallic drying agents, including zinc. Metals in the varnish? Seriously?
>> Why doesn't this ruin the dielectric qualities of the cured poly?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>> Tesla mailing list
>> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Quarkster <quarkster@xxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:41:01 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: RE: [TCML] single ear transformer
> Gates -
>
> A few more details on this transformer, and your Tesla coil, might allow
> the TCML to better understand your setup and make appropriate suggestions.
>
> 1. Are you trying to retrofit this transformer to an existing, operational
> Tesla coil, or is this a Tesla coil that is just being assembled and is not
> yet running?
>
> 2. Can you provide additional details on this transformer, like its output
> current or KVA rating,  physical size/shape, and original application, if
> known?
>
> 3. With a 30KV RMS output (assuming that you apply the full 120VAC input
> voltage), the peak secondary voltage will be over 42,000 volts. This high a
> voltage will require a pretty robust tank capacitor, and special
> construction techniques throughout the tank circuit to deal with corona,
> surface tracking, arc-over, etc. Not many Tesla coils operate successfully
> with this high a voltage in the tank circuit. What type of spark gap will be
> used in this setup?
>
> Regards,
> Herr Zapp
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 4/21/09, Gates Larocque <gateslarocque@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> From: Gates Larocque <gateslarocque@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: [TCML] single ear transformer
> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 6:40 PM
>
> The output is rated at 30KV the case ground is just a regular house green
> ground for the case
>
> > From: chriskarr4@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: [TCML] single ear transformer
> > Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:16:26 -0700
> > CC:
> >
> >
> > It would help to know the output to know if it's compatible. If it
> only has one output, which grounds to the case, then you tie the case to
> one
> side of the spark gap/capacitor, and the output terminal to the other side.
> >
> > > From: gateslarocque@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> > > Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:48:03 -0400
> > > CC:
> > > Subject: [TCML] single ear transformer
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyone here have a schematic to wire my single ear HV transformer to
> my coil.
> > >
> > > it has 120VAC 60HZ input and ground to the case.
> > >
> > > I'm am jut used to having two high voltage outputs to short out
> for the spark gap.
> > >
> > > Gates
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Internet Explorer 8 helps keep your personal info safe.
> > >
>
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655581_______________________________________________
> > > Tesla mailing list
> > > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
> >
>
> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009_______________________________________________
> > Tesla mailing list
> > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Internet Explorer 8 helps keep your personal info safe.
>
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655581_______________________________________________
> Tesla mailing list
> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Dex Dexter" <dexterlabs@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:34:54 -0700
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Questions on grounding
>
> Bart and everybody,
>
> Bit off topic question.
> I have heard of the possibility so called "overquenched gap".
> How strong must be an airflow through the static gap of a NST coil to
> observe the effect of the "overquenching"?
>
>
> Dex
>
>
> --- bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> From: bartb <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Questions on grounding
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:14:57 -0700
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> 12" to 16" is good improvement.
>
> Don't increase the spark gap. All this will do is increase the breakdown
> voltage and can kill the NST. A new gap would be good and the hyperbaric
> gap (linked the drawing in a post last week) is probably the easiest to
> build. It's basically a PVC T-fitting with copper pipes inserted into
> the ends along with a brass fitting on each end. The air is forced up
> through the center hole in the T-fitting. For your 12/30 NST, you can
> max out at about 27", so another 11" is about all you can expect out of
> the 12/30 on a perfect day. I think in order to achieve that or even
> come close, a new blown gap would be needed. That's up to you of course.
> If you do end up adding a 2nd 12/30 NST in parallel with the 1st NST,
> then you basically have a 12/60. Max length is about 38" with this
> setup. However, your cap would be very near NST resonance and it would
> be best to throw a little more capacitance into the gap if you think
> about doing that (about 0.018uF to .02uF is what you want with a 12/60).
>
> The toroid may actually be too big, not too small. Install a breakout
> point (anything you come up with will do). I have a 1 meter aluminum
> ruler that I use for a breakout point and I simply lay it on top of the
> toroid when I use it. This will allow the spark to breakout more
> consistently and it helps direct the spark to one side of the coil.
> Actually when your testing spark lengths against a ground wire or
> object, try using a breakout point as it gives a precise measurement and
> you will get far more strikes to the object. The breakout point can be a
> wire, a ruler, a rod, and some even go as far as to attach a 1/2" to 1"
> metallic sphere to the end of the rod. The rod should protrude out past
> the toroid edge by about 5 to 10 inches on your toroid size.
>
> I don't think you need to lower the toroid at all. If the bottom of the
> toroid is 2" above the secondary, then it should be fine where it is.
>
> Take care,
> Bart
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> http://www.DCemail.com---> A Washington Online Community Member --->
> http://www.DCpages.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andrew Robinson <teslamad@xxxxxxx>
> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:21:22 -0400
> Subject: [TCML] Tesla Theory Power Point
> Does anyone out there have a tesla coil theory Power Point they could send
> me. I got asked to do a last minute demonstration and presentation and dont
> have time to create one. Thanks again! I have both office 2003 and 2007!
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Robinson
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "David Rieben" <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Tesla Coil Mailing List" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 06:30:35 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Single ear piglet
> Hi Jim, Gates,
>
> What "I" do with my single eared piggy is hook the
> tank's case "return" to the opposite side of the SG/
> capacitor form the "ear".. In other words, the tank
> case is tied to RF ground. Since my pig is resting on
> a plywood base and fastend via its polemunt brackets
> to 2x4 cross beams inside of my control panel, I am
> able to effectively isolate the RF from the mains ground.
> As a matter of fact, there is no direct connection to
> mains ground at all with the my piggy, since proper
> input hookup leaves the middle LV bushing un-
> grounded.
>
> I see you also mentioned  that your transformer's rated
> output is 30 kV with 120 volts input. I am assuming
> that this is some type of potential transformer as
> 30 kV seems rather high for typical primary distri-
> bution voltage. Also, as Herr Zapp has mentioned,
> this is also a very high primary voltage for a typical
> Tesla coil circuit and few of even the largest coils run
> on primary circuit voltages of this magnitude. List
> member Scot "bunnykiller" D. is about the only one
> that I can think of off the top of my head that has
> succesfully ran ~ 30 kV in a standard, air-insulated Tesla
> primary circuit and he can tell you firsthand of the inherent
> problems with running voltages this high that H. Zapp has
> already mentioned in his posting to this thread. If it's at
> all feasble for you, you may wish to consider obtaining
> a pole pig with a more typical input voltage (output
> voltage, for our use), like 13.2 or 14.4 kV. If it's not
> feasable, then I suggest that you talk with "bunnykiller"
> to get some insight from his experience. Of course,
> one advantage to using a higher primary voltage is that
> you can get by with a notably smaller primary capacitor,
> capacitance wise, per E = .5 CV (sqrd), where E is the
> energy, in Joules, C is the capacitance, in Farads, and V
> is the potential, in volts. However, the increased dielectric
> requirements for the additional voltage standoff pretty well
> render this advantage moot.
>
> David Rieben
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Mora" <wavetuner@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:54 PM
> Subject: [TCML] Single ear piglet
>
>
>  Hi Gates,
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr, Resonance does this on all his coils this way. I just set one up to
>> his
>> specs and many list member ground one horn in a dual horn. I'll let Dr.
>> Resonance advise on this. Generally the inner turn of the primary is
>> grounded to the coils RF ground. You need a return path so the pig may be
>> at
>> mains ground too, something I don't like much. Filter the nasties!.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Mora
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tesla mailing list
>> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andrew Robinson <teslamad@xxxxxxx>
> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:54:21 -0400
> Subject: [TCML] Rotary Disc Material
> Check out this image of my old SRSG:
>
> http://host.atomiklan.com/tesla/UHMW.jpg
>
> The disc used UHMWPE (Ultra high molecular weight polyethylene) as its base
> plastic. Ignoring the burned areas, what im really concerned about is the
> melting... I know all this looks bad, bear with with me a min.
>
> (Side note: UHMWPE has a melting point around 144 to 152 degrees C)_ <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius>_
>
> This gap ran a 10KVA pig driven coil hence the crazyness. Those steel
> electrodes got so hot that they melted into the plastic. The washers that
> used to be there are now completely gone... vanished... MIA. lol
>
> Anywaz, the new gap is going to use tungsten electrodes that space out
> farther from the disc to prevent the burning , the the new electrode
> material should help with the heating up problem, but as an extra measure,
> im looking for a new material to machine the disc out of. I've seen alot of
> people out there that made the disc out of what looks like a brown brittle
> material. What can I use that will chock it up to the heat and be an
> excellent insulator?
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew Robinson
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tesla mailing list
> Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
>
>


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