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*To*: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>*Subject*: RE: [TCML] Re: Primary/Sec. Frequency*From*: "Phil Tuck" <phil@xxxxxxxxxxx>*Date*: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 11:27:58 +0100*Delivered-to*: teslaarchive@xxxxxxxxxx*Delivered-to*: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx*In-reply-to*: <FDF8A4F00C5844899742BF940CEB0B06@TTagate>*List-archive*: <http://www.pupman.com/pipermail/tesla>*List-help*: <mailto:tesla-request@pupman.com?subject=help>*List-id*: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla.pupman.com>*List-post*: <mailto:tesla@pupman.com>*List-subscribe*: <http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla>, <mailto:tesla-request@pupman.com?subject=subscribe>*List-unsubscribe*: <http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla>, <mailto:tesla-request@pupman.com?subject=unsubscribe>*References*: <FDF8A4F00C5844899742BF940CEB0B06@TTagate>*Reply-to*: Tesla Coil Mailing List <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>*Sender*: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx*Thread-index*: Ac5u1I22HKuWmw0fSQuPXI8jyUlHWwAWqPJQ

Tim, If your using an RQ gap then 8 turns may cause too many losses, but with a rotary or two electrode sucker gap it should be ok. Using an LTR cap with the RQ will mean too few turns though. I would prefer a bigger 30 inch toroid, but 24 will work, although may not provide enough protection for the top of the secondary without a corona ring - suck it and see. The actual JavaTC output file would have been better; your last post said it was attached, but as the board doesn't support attachments it needed to have been cut and pasted from Javatc itself, into the previous posting. As your given figures are incomplete, I have assumed some bits:- Sec 6 inch diam = 3 inch radius 1350 turns of 22 gauge Sec Winding length = 36.45 inches Sec winding ht2 (top) = 59.45 *** Sec winding bottom = ? (not given) ** therefore = Sec winding ht1 (bottom) will equal 23 inches (59.45 - 36.45) Primary 8 turns inner radius 4.5 inches *** outer radius = ? (not given) ** but estimated at 9.3 inches (see below # #) Primary height ? (not given) but most likely 23 inches (bottom of secondary) ---------------- Primary Estimate o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o Gives: 7 spaces and 8 turns (using copper pipe of .25 inch [assumed] x 8 = 2 inches) + (7 spaces x [guess] 0.4 inch = 2.8 inches) = 4.8 inches of tube & spacing So: inner R of 4.5, plus the 4.8 inches above, means outer radius = 9.3 inches ----------------- # # THE ABOVE WAS ENTERED, BUT WAS CHANGED IN THE OUTPUT FILE BELOW BY THE JAVATC PROGRAM, BECAUSE IT USED ITS "AUTO_TUNE" FACILITY ------------------ Toroid minor = 8 inches diam Toroid major = 24 inches Centre height = 64.95 inches Voltage rated output = 14.4kV out Voltage in (not known) Voltage applied to PT (not known) drawing 30 amps Cap size 40 nF Transformer PT, actual input assumed to be 14.4kv (assumed no Variac over-voltageing being used) Assuming you're USA, I guess you'll use the 240v input? as opposed to the domestic 110v This all gives a slightly different secondary frequency though (138 against your 142 kHz):- (Maybe I missed something - bad night) The Javatc output using above: ---------------------------------------------------- Secondary Coil Inputs: ---------------------------------------------------- Current Profile = G.PROFILE_LOADED 3 = Radius 1 3 = Radius 2 23 = Height 1 59.45 = Height 2 1350 = Turns 22 = Wire Awg ---------------------------------------------------- Primary Coil Inputs: ---------------------------------------------------- 4.5 = Radius 1 9.685 = Radius 2 23 = Height 1 23 = Height 2 8.6412 = Turns 0.25 = Wire Diameter 0.04 = Primary Cap (uF) 30 = Total Lead Length 0.2 = Lead Diameter ---------------------------------------------------- Top Load Inputs: ---------------------------------------------------- Toroid #1: minor=8, major=24, height=64.95, topload ---------------------------------------------------- Secondary Outputs: ---------------------------------------------------- 138.26 kHz = Secondary Resonant Frequency 90 deg° = Angle of Secondary 36.45 inch = Length of Winding 37 inch = Turns Per Unit 0.00165 inch = Space Between Turns (edge to edge) 2120.6 ft = Length of Wire 6.08:1 = H/D Aspect Ratio 33.9533 Ohms = DC Resistance 35459 Ohms = Reactance at Resonance 4.12 lbs = Weight of Wire 40.817 mH = Les-Effective Series Inductance 43.441 mH = Lee-Equivalent Energy Inductance 42.51 mH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance 32.464 pF = Ces-Effective Shunt Capacitance 30.503 pF = Cee-Equivalent Energy Capacitance 50.629 pF = Cdc-Low Frequency Capacitance 7.67 mils = Skin Depth 24.69 pF = Topload Effective Capacitance 115.1048 Ohms = Effective AC Resistance 308 = Q ---------------------------------------------------- Primary Outputs: ---------------------------------------------------- 138.08 kHz = Primary Resonant Frequency 0.13 % high = Percent Detuned 0 deg° = Angle of Primary 32.09 ft = Length of Wire 5.32 mOhms = DC Resistance 0.35 inch = Average spacing between turns (edge to edge) 1.362 inch = Proximity between coils 6.59 inch = Recommended minimum proximity between coils 32.355 µH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance 0.03989 µF = Cap size needed with Primary L (reference) 0.861 µH = Lead Length Inductance 140.57 µH = Lm-Mutual Inductance 0.12 k = Coupling Coefficient 0.135 k = Recommended Coupling Coefficient 8.33 = Number of half cycles for energy transfer at K 29.9 µs = Time for total energy transfer (ideal quench time) ---------------------------------------------------- Transformer Inputs: ---------------------------------------------------- 240 [volts] = Transformer Rated Input Voltage 1440 [volts] = Transformer Rated Output Voltage 400 [mA] = Transformer Rated Output Current 60 [Hz] = Mains Frequency 250 [volts] = Transformer Applied Voltage 30 [amps] = Transformer Ballast Current 0 [ohms] = Measured Primary Resistance 0 [ohms] = Measured Secondary Resistance ---------------------------------------------------- Transformer Outputs: ---------------------------------------------------- 576 [volt*amps] = Rated Transformer VA 3600 [ohms] = Transformer Impedence 1500 [rms volts] = Effective Output Voltage 30 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Primary Current 5 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Secondary Current 7500 [volt*amps] = Effective Input VA 0.7368 [uF] = Resonant Cap Size 1.1052 [uF] = Static gap LTR Cap Size 1.9213 [uF] = SRSG LTR Cap Size 27 [uF] = Power Factor Cap Size 2121 [peak volts] = Voltage Across Cap 5303 [peak volts] = Recommended Cap Voltage Rating 0.09 [joules] = Primary Cap Energy 74.6 [peak amps] = Primary Instantaneous Current 125.1 [inch] = Spark Length (JF equation using Resonance Research Corp. factors) 2.1 [peak amps] = Sec Base Current With the streamer lengths you can expect to get, you would most likly need to add a half turn or more onto javatc's primary tap figures, to allow for streamer loading. (Javatc just matches the frequency, whereas you'll probably need the primary freq' to be a bit lower than the secondary.) Others may have additional recomendations Phil -----Original Message----- From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tim Flood Sent: 21 June 2013 18:59 To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx Subject: [TCML] Re: Primary/Sec. Frequency After much number plugging into JAVATC, I finally got the resonant frequencies of the primary and secondary to balance. The final numbers are 142.64 KHz and 141.64, respectively with these design parameters: 6" dia. sec. wound with 1350 turns 22 ga., 36.45" winding length or 59.45 Ht. 2 8 turn primary, 4.5" Radius 1 Primary cap - .04 uF Primary lead length 30" of .2 Toroid - minor dia. 8", major dia. 24", center ht. 64.95, disc ID 0.0"dsc OD 8" disc Ht. 64.95 HV power supply - 14,400 PT. Testing with Jacobs ladder drew a max of 30 amps with a 500' spool of 12 ga. The above is not what I expected, especially the small number of primary turns and primary cap size. Am I headed in the right direction finally? Any comments or suggestions appreciated - please. Thanks, _______________________________________________ Tesla mailing list Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla

**References**:**[TCML] Re: Primary/Sec. Frequency***From:*Tim Flood

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